somebikeguy 

Hello all

I'm subtly modernizing a 1969 Bottecchia (see thread here: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...onversion.html) and have come to the part where I need to decide on a rear hub. I am fairly sure the bike was originally 120mm and has been set to sorta 126mm at some point, meaning the rear wheel that was on the bike was 126mm OLN and it takes a little nudging to get it in place.

I thought I had this sorted with a Velo Orange 126mm threaded hub. As you may know, there are not that many choices for a quality new production 7 speed freewheel and I was happy to find this option from Interloc Racing - https://www.modernbike.com/interloc-...-13-28t-silver I confirmed my rebuilt Nuovo Record derailleur can handle the 28t cog but as I test-shifted I was not hugely impressed with the shifting nor the quality of the freewheel.



Another wrinkle: A big part of my build is going tubeless, and the Pacenti Brevet rims I'm using are back ordered 4 months in 36h, but available in 32h. I've already built my front wheel on a 32h Velo Orange hub. Unfortunately the Velo Orange rear 126mm only comes in 36h.





This got me thinking about going from threaded to a freehub/cassette in 32h 126mm. I am no Italian Loyalist and would be quite happy to friction shift my way across a Hyperglide cassette. I would like the rear hub to look the part but I'm not going obsess over it. As long as its polished I think it'll look fine. I've spent the last 24 hours confusing myself reading about swapping HG bodies onto UG hubs. Many of these threads are older. Here's what I've gleaned...

1a. The "easy way" would be to get a Hyperglide 126mm 32h hub. I've read tell of them here but now having a hard time finding one. I thought FH-6400 would fit this bill but the closer I look I don't think it does. such as this
When I look up FH-6402 I see its the transition to Hyperglide but also see it noted as the transition to 130mm. However I see ebay listings (which may be incorrect...) offering 126mm 6402 hubs.

1b. The "harder way" would be to be to use a Uniglide 126mm 32h hub such as FH-6207 and attempt to convert it to a HG 7sp Freehub such as FH-RM30. I've read plenty of threads here about dustcap incompatibility. Those threads are a bit older and parts availability / knowledge evolve. Can anyone comment on a recent, successful transplant?

For bonus points I could attempt the 9 speeds of a 10 speed or 8 speeds of a 9 speed mod that Sheldon describes. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#interactive

2. I am less read into Campy bits and many old or NOS parts carry what seems like a hefty premium. If any suggestions, do tell

3. I realize I can also further stretch the frame to 130mm. Since it started life as 120mm I'm not hugely keen on it but for sure its an option. In that case I could go to Velo Orange or many other 130mm 32h hubs.

rccardr 

Couple of options here:
Forget 620X as they ise a completely different freehub mounting system. Same with 740X.

However, 126mm HG freehub wheels/hubs exist. Look for a late 80’s/early 90’s 6401 or 1055 rear hub; some of these accept both UG and HG cogs as they were interim production years.

Or, start with a later 130mm HG hub and replace the freehub with a 7 speed HG unit. Not super hard to find, they show up on eBay and at your local coop from time to time. Will require some seal juggling and axle shortening but you can even bring one of these down to 120mm by reducing the size of NDS spacers.
If using friction shifters, allows one to run 7 speed, 8 of 9 on 7 or 9 of 10 on 7.

This works VERY well. Have a DA7700 rear hub on my 120mm spaced Raleigh Gran Tour running 8 of 9 and it shifts perfectly.

somebikeguy 

DOH sorry folks, I am asking about a cassette and freehub NOT a freewheel. I have a very nice VO threaded hub, as pictured. But I am less than satisfied with the freewheels available new and the 36 hole rim SNAFU means that I am shopping for a 126mm/32h/freehub-cassette

rccardr 

Agreed, if the OP decides to take the freewheel path, 6207 (or 1050 or 7400) would be an excellent choice.

ehcoplex 

Yeah, those IRD freewheels are pretty crappy. I spent too much money on one, and a couple extra cogs to get the gear spread I wanted. Had a crappy customer-service interaction when I was just trying to get some info about the cogs, too, and then the freewheel has tons of 'play' in it, didn't shift particularly great, and just plain seems cheap. Never again with (over-priced) IRD stuff for me. I've got Sunrace 7-speed freewheels on a couple bikes (both with the VO 126mm hubs)- they feel a little cheap, but they actually are cheap ($-wise, compared to IRD) and they actually shift pretty well, IMO. One's mated to a Simplex SLJ, one is with a Cyclone MKII. The best shifting 126mm bike I've got now has a Suntour New Winner freewheel (6sp, but I *think* I could actually fit an Ultra 7sp) with a 1st gen Cyclone.

The VO hubs are pretty nice, and look pretty good too. Is your main issue with them the limitations of 7sp freewheel availability and having to wait for a 36h rim? On the freewheel side of things, you could check with pastorbobnlnh , he may have a 7sp Suntour NWN..


edit- sorry, sent before seeing OP's follow up!

somebikeguy 

Its a bit of both. If I can get over to hyperglide I like that it opens possibilities of futzing with the cogs, trying different things such as the 8-of-9 or 9-of-10. I'd also like to wrap this project and get to riding... I don't have another road bike so while I'm usually patient I would like to snag the 32hole rim asap.

Naturally going to 130mm solves all this... am I over thinking that or am I right that going from 120 to 130mm is worth trying to avoid?

tkamd73 

My best friction shifting experience with 126mm spacing, is with a 6207 hub, Deore long cage derailleur, and cheap Shimano twisted tooth, hyper glide freewheel. I assume we are talking freewheels here, and not a freehub, as IRC does not list any free hubs in their product line
That Campy RD is beautiful, and will shift forever, just not as well, as the higher end Shimano or Suntour ones.
The IRC freewheels are pretty in silver, but heavy, and won’t shift as well as the hyper glide Shimano ones. If you don’t like the cheap ones with the large Shimano script on them, who does, you can find an expensive DA freewheel, but it won’t shift any better than the cheap one, however, it will probably last longer.
Nice bike, and good luck, with enough experimentation, you’ll get there eventually.
Tim

79pmooney

Question - are you wedded to the Campy NR derailleur? The easy upgrade in shifting is to go SunTour Cyclone or one of the newer SunTours. Or one of the many post SunTour slant parallelogram derailleurs. I know for many, giving up the NR is like giving you your first born but I raced a Cyclone in the '70s it and was very obvious to me (and all the other Cyclone riders) that we had simply better shifting all the time.

I'm running older Sachs 7-speed FWs, 13-26, on two bikes with Cyclone on one and ARX on the other. (13-26 because I love the cog choices. My legs can use the 28 but 4 tooth jumps suck for me. I don't even like a 21-24 jump.) Shifting over the Sachs is a touch rough (I don't think there is any tooth shaping) but easy and reliable. I really don't like the very shaped tooth shifting of the later Shimano FWs and cassettes with friction. Too often, a careless shifts puts the chain where it cannot make up its mind which cog it wants and goes back and forth depending on my pedaling effort and always picking the option I don't want.. I'm a ex-racer. I expect to be able to always slam the chain far up or down the FW and get a gear that works and have the chain stay put.) My ARX bike used the SunTour Power Ratchets which are close to sublime. Cyclone used the auto-correcting SunTours on the box that sits on top of the DT. Quite different but also sublime.

Now I am not much help on new hubs. Haven't bought a new 7-speed hub in almost 30 years. Pickings are getting slimmer and I'm finding the best bets now may well be the no-name Taiwan hubs built as OEMs. Decent quality. Not special to look at but I think they had figured out how to make rear axles that weren't likely to bend or break. My early '80s race bike is wearing one.

Rode the ARX/ratchet shift bike yesterday. It's my farmer's market bike. Got reminded how sweet that bike shifts; both riding to and feeling strong and coming home uphill on slightly tired legs and loaded bike. The Cyclone/auto-correct will have to wait 'till warm weather, all the paint repairs done and bike rebuilt. That bike's fair weather only.

The dream shifter? My "good" bike with its 9-speed Chorus cassette and SunTour Superbe shifters. (Those shifters also sit on the box on top. Perfect for one hand double shifts and no knee strike; my nemisis.) I think the Campy 9-speed is as close as you can get for friction for easy, fast, reliable shifts, lots of gears but big enough spacing to make finding the right cog still easy. So nice the cable stops for the brifter housing s are still sitting there unused after 14 years and almost 20,000 miles of friction shifting. Edit: The bike's got a Campy Mirage RD. I know nothing about it. Picked it up used. Guessing early '90s? Slant parallelogram plus spring in the mounting pivot. Positive, smooth as silk. I put in on 10,000 miles ago figuring it might last a couple of seasons. Pivots have loosened up a bit but it's running like an old SunTour - just fine.

Piff 

There's this old thread you might find useful:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...b-success.html

Also, I realize you want to get rolling ASAP so it's hard to wait, but those 126mm hyperglide/unliglide combo freehubs really aren't that rare. Just got to keep a bead on ebay. Give it a 15-20 minute look every day, or every other day. You'll find one for the right price/condition if you're patient. Though that's easier said that done when there's a bike to be ridden

Oh, and don't expect modern performance from campy rear derailleurs pre-slant-parallelogram if you're trying to get them shift more than a corn cob. If you're trying to shift a touring freewheel/cassette, well you better get the tool for the job. A nice suntour Vx GT would do you fine. However, I can tell you from experience it cannot shift across a 130mm 8 speed hub.

sbarner 

On my foul weather commuter I have moved to Suntour 7-speed cassette on a 126 mm hub, shifted with Shimano indexed downtube shifters and a Shimano 600 rear mech. It all works flawlessly. The Suntour cassette is actually an 8-speed MicroDrive with the threads for the 11 tooth cog ground off, though there were 7-speed versions as well. I'm not really advising this, as the parts and cassettes are getting hard to find, but it's an example of how you can make pretty much anything work.

There are still a lot of Shimano 126 mm hubs out there in both freewheel and cassette, so it shouldn't be too hard to find something suitable. It wasn't until 8-speed that the hubs went to 130 mm. If I had a Uniglide hub, I would just use HG cassettes and grind down the wide tab to make it fit, using the old, small threaded cog to hold it on. The grinding is an easy chore with a Dremel. If you avoid cassettes with carriers, you can use an 8-speed cassette and just drop off a couple cogs.

C9H13N 

You can spread your frame to 130mm in 5 minutes and avoid all of this roundabout nonsense with 7 speed cassette hubs. You've already spread to 126, it's not like there is any originality to preserve.

79pmooney

The later Cyclones and Cyclone GTs can shift over a 130BCD 9-speed. Also from experience.

Piff 

That is great to know! Ty

79pmooney

But it is a second bend. There's risk of starting a crack or getting a crimp. One reason my Mooney's staying 126. It likewise started life as a 120.

icemilkcoffee 

A few answers:
1. The correct 6400 freehub for 126mm HG body is FH6401:
https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/FH...-6401-1075.pdf

2. Other options for 126mm HG hubs are 105 FH1055, RX100 FH-A550, RSX FH-A410. You can also buy 7 speed HG hub bodies and swap them onto the 8 speed version of these hubs.

3. The IRD freewheel doesn't shift well because it doesn't have the HG style contours carved into the cogs. You want something like a Shimano or Sunrace 7sp freewheel.

masi61

I’m a fan of leaving it at 126mm spacing. Since you already have the VO 36 hole hub can you just wait for Pacenti to come through with a silver 36 hole rim? How long is the wait?
If you decide to not use the VO 36 rear FW hub & choose to spec a Shimano 7 speed cassette hub in silver & 32 hole - my top suggestion would be to get something like a Dura Ace 7400 FH “if” you can find a Dura Ace UniGlide 7 speed cassette for it. If that is too much of a unicorn, you might want to be on the lookout for a Deore XT ll 7 speed cassette freehub with the combo UG/ HG FH body. You can purchase a 137mm replacement axle from Wheels Manufacturing that would be the correct length for 126mm spacing (locknut to locknut). You would remove spacers to fit since the Deore XT 7 speed hubs were for 135mm mountain/hybrid/touring frames. That generation on silver Deore XT ll (M720?) had the pretty polished silver clear anodized look just like Dura Ace 7400 but were able to run HG 7 speed cassettes. To find one you might have to pay more for an NOS one on eBay & / or keep checking back til a keeper pops up. Regular Deore 7 speed rear hubs also came in silver but I believe the aluminum might be un-anodized so it would require periodic polishing with mag wheel polish to maintain that higher end polished silver look.

somebikeguy 

MANY THANKS these are great ideas all.

The more I read the more sure I am I want to stay 126mm and find 32h. With those constraints it seems FH-6401 is in fact the golden ticket, with the right looks and native Hyperglide capability. The only one I see on ebay now is a front & rear pair priced high but I'll keep my eyes open.

As I look closer at the uniglide to hyperglide conversion process I feel its also worth considering filing a hyperglide cassette to fit and using a uniglide small cog lockring. If I were to go that path can anyone suggest which 126mm 32h uniglide freehub would put me in the best place to source hyperglide / lockring parts? I can't quite tell if Dura-Ace makes this easier or harder.

squirtdad

I have found that the biggest way to improve friction shifting is to use a freewheel that has teeth and ramps

Mr. Spadoni 

I’m with 79mooney: ditch the NR and move to Suntour. With a ST, you will be much happier in the long run. NR will do 28t, but it was built in a time when 28t was never used by racers, the intended users. 21t was a huge cog then. Basically, 28t is pushing the design limit and the shifting is gonna be funky. And if no one has said it yet be sure to check the derailleur alignment. Might be something that has ever been done.

Classtime 

Another option is get a 36 hole TB14 and get going with the parts on hand. I was happy with my IRD freewheel and their Cassette.

somebikeguy 

I went back and measured my frame again and my memory was wrong. It has not be permanently spread, it still measures 120mm with no hub installed. The hub is spreading it when inserted, which happens with relative ease.

somebikeguy 

Thanks to you both. I do like the NR, it was original to the bike and I gave it some love with the new jockey wheels. I tested it on the IRD freewheel and it can handle 28t. I am not positive I'll go up to 28t in my revised setup.

Aardwolf

Another vote for SunTour Cyclone MkII GT

I've made 2 sets of wheels for 126 OLD on my 1982 bike fitted with Cyclone MkII GT:

• Mavic Monthlery Route + Campy Nuovo Tipo + SunRace 7 speed freewheel 13-28
• Mavic MA2 + Shimano RX100 (FH-A551 8 speed freehub) + SRAM PG-850 11-32 cassette (compatible with Shimano HG bodies)

The Cyclone MkII handles both just fine.

But I also understand sticking with what you like

somebikeguy 

I made a dummy 130mm axle and sure enough it spreads the frame with relative ease. Besides the added difficulty in taking the rear wheel off, what is the downside to leaving the frame at 120 and letting the wheel spread it?

Classtime 

Just wondering....
With a shop like that, and the know-how to use it, it seems crazy that you are asking for advice.