a1rabbit

Hi everyone.

This question will take some explaining. It's long.

I live in Canada, the Surly LHT is hard to find here and when you do it's expensive. Most shops charge $1699 -$1799! (all except one I've talked to) The Canadian dollar is currently on par (or close to it) with the US dollar, the price difference is crazy!

For Canadians, it sucks that the LHT is only 1100 bucks in the US, it's defiantly a case of the grass being greener on the other side.

Anyhow, in Canada the Trek 520 sells for $1399 and I found a store that has some really nice people working there who will sell the LHT for $1399 as well. He said that the nice thing about buying local is that if it's a good shop, they'll get you what you want for what you can afford, within reason. And I agree that it's his best way to get a loyal customer. He also agrees that the LHT sells for far too much here because of how it's distributed throughout Canada.

I've talked to a lot of shops here about it and most seem pretty upset about Surly in Canada, I live in Vancouver, BC. Anyone from another province have a different experience with Surly?

So my options come down to these.

Get the Surly or the Trek for $1399.

Go to the US for a week (which I will likely be doing in July anyway, friend has a place on Whidbey island) and get the bike there for $1100, get it fit, etc. Come back and pay Duty, which is 13% extra, plus Canadian taxes which currently sits at 5% for my province on bikes. This will end up being about the same price as getting the LHT here for $1399 (taking into account travel, etc.) I may save about 200 if things went well.

I could try just not telling them about the bike, but I hate being dishonest (even though I feel like they rip us off enough). If I do this I risk them catching me and taking the bike or charging me extra. Not really my cup of tea.

Another option is to have an American friend buy the bike and bring it over for me, again seems underhanded and I won't be able to get it fit, unless we met up in Washington and came back here together after I got the bike fit. I don't think this is legal.

That would save me enough money to deck the bike out with racks and fenders.

This a seriously annoying situation and the only time I've felt like I have wanted to "cheat" the system.

I just feel like I'm being cheated ripped off. Frustrating.

I've basically decided that I don't want to be sneaky, and so I'll eat the cost and get the bike here.

So the question is, Trek 520 or Surly LHT for $1400 bucks?

Given all this info, what would you do in my shoes?

By the way, I can't express how much I appreciate everyone's help here on this forum so far.

kayakdiver

Why not head South into Bellingham? You could get either for a ton less. Even if you got hit with GST/PST I would think it would still be less.

My 2 Cents. Every brand is available that I can think of..

If you're going to be on Whidbey.. friend of mine who owns a shop in Oak Harbor would be more than happy to order you a LHT. She doesn't carry Trek. They also carry Kona.

If you buy it up in BC.. I'd go Trek just to be different

kyakdiver

LeeG

ok, you've got two bikes that you can get for $1400, have you ridden them? My understanding is that you can get fatter tires on the LHT and the 520 is a more natural riding road bike without a load than the LHT. LHT for huge loads and big tire option, 520 for more frequent unloaded riding. You're into personal preference territory.

twodeadpoets

Agree with both kayakdiver and LeeG, drive south to B'ham and decide if you want a all around bike or a dedicated tourer. That said, my wife uses her LHT for commuting and touring while I use my LHT for touring only and a Surly Pacer for my commuter and fast bike. I could use my LHT for commuting and know people who do but it is a heavier bike

JeanM

I've had both for a time, but the LHT longer. I don't understand the matter of how the LHT rides unloaded since it is just a sweet ride, extremely stable, without a hint of a problem but anyway...

I live in Canada too and one thing to remember is that the price difference is only for the Surly complete: the frameset is almost the same price as in the US. I had mine a couple of weeks ago for 460$. Now, that leaves almost 1000$ to buy components. If you play your cards right and find them at discount places like ChainReaction, Craiglist, club friends you can build quite the sweet ride for very little more than what the complete costs.

The fact is that I bought a complete last fall for 1000$ like new. Yet I'll spend more to build a new one to my taste. Too bad you aren't near Montreal: I am selling a perfectly good Utility Blue, 2000 km, for 900$.

Bikearound

I think you'll find more LHT riders on this forum than 520 riders so the info you get will be skewed a bit. As far as your Canadian tax situation is concerned, most large corporations have teams of strategists that do nothing but figure out how not to pay tax on stuff so even though I understand the moral dilemma, I wouldn't loose any sleep if you figure it out.

Cyclebum

The third is to buy the bike in US, box it up and ship to yourself in Vancouver. I guess customs could still hassle you.

I like the American friend idea. Sounds likes the surest way to manage this unreasonable situation.

Garthr

Buy it in the US and Ride it across the border! No customs hassle.

valygrl

Don't cheat on your taxes. Would you break your country's other laws?

That said, pick the one that fits you best, and if that doesn't make the decision, decide based on the major functional difference, which is wheel size. If all your tours are first-world, 700c is fine, but if you are going somewhere more remote, get the 26" wheel LHT.

by the way, back to the $ - over the course of the many years you will ride & enjoy either bike, the $200 won't be noticed much, so I wouldn't put too much weight on it unless it's actually a deal breaker. If it just "annoys" you, put that aside.

aroundoz

You always have great advice.

Also, supporting your local LBS is a good thing especially one that's lowering the price of the LHT that much for you. If you trust them and feel good about them, then feel good about getting the LHT there (if that ends up being your choice) and helping to keep their doors open. They will probably take care of some of the minor tweaks and give you a warranty tune as part of the deal which narrows the gap even more.

LeeG

what I don't get is that the op isn't talking about usage or handling, so with two bikes of the same price he's stuck?

skijor

This. Ride. and sleep well.

BigBlueToe

When I was younger I was a traveling musician. We were from Bellingham but toured in Canada. We had to pay a huge deposit on our equipment to get it across the border. They were trying to insure we didn't sell it in Canada and avoid the duties. We only had bookings for the first month of our two-month tour (our agency was working out the details for our second month.) When we got the second month's bookings, we had to "go around the pole" - drive into the states, turn around, and drive right back into Canada, and we had to pay the huge deposit again! We didn't see any profits from the tour until several months after, when the refund checks came.

I guess I'm saying that it might not be as easy as you think to buy a bicycle in the states and take it across without paying duty fees - and it's probably illegal.

As far as the bike choice, I'm an LHT owner and more familiar with that, but the 520 has a solid reputation. If the prices are similar, I'd look at components, fit, and aesthetics. Which has the shifters, gearing, etc. that you like? Does one feel better when you ride it than the other? Comfort is huge when you're going to be riding that thing for hours every day, day after day, even week after week. Does one look cooler than the other? Does one make you feel cooler than the other? I wouldn't discount that. I like a bike I think is cool.

John Nelson

Coke or Pepsi, Ford or Chevy, paper or plastic, coffee or tea, etc.

Both sell well, both have their devotees, both work well.

Buy both!

Or buy the one you like to color of best.

Or buy the one that feels best to ride (if you can ride them both).

acantor

When calculating the cost of your bicycle, take into account the cost of annual tuneups. My local bicycle store gives a free "basic" tuneup for three years after purchase, which is worth $150. If you buy in the USA, you will have no chance to get the level of service unless you are willing to cross the border, assuming the American store offers something comparable.

kayakdiver

If you tour.... You should be able to do all these things yourself. What does your local bike shop do to your bike that you can't?

acantor

Is the ability to repair one's own bicycle an ethical imperative?? I didn't know that!

But seriously, some people, including myself, are not particularly mechanically inclined. I am able to take in the slack in the brake cables, tighten bolts, and in a pinch, repair a flat. I can improvise all sorts of repairs with crazy glue and dental floss and duct tape. And I know how to clean a chain. But beyond that, I leave it all to the capable mechanics at my local bike store; and while I am touring, if there is a problem, I find a bicycle store, and pay them to fix things.

My approach may not be ideal for people who tour in Mongolia or Tanzania, but in almost 25 years of bicycle touring, I don't think that I have ever been more than a few hours distant from a bicycle store. In other words, it would be nice to be fully self-sufficient, but not being a mechanical wizard is no reason not to tour.

kayakdiver

Maybe not.. but it's a darn good idea.

BengeBoy 

The most interesting thing to me about this thread is the fact that even though the OP said *in his original post* that he wants to comply fully with Canadian law, a number folks have chimed in advocating that he smuggle a bike across the border, one way or another.

If the OP is a smuggler, what he should really do is bring down a pound of BC marijuana, sell it to the college kids in Bellingham, and then use his profits to buy a big motorhome. He can then hide a bicycle inside the motorhome, and when he crosses the border the Canadian authorities will be so busy collecting taxes and duties on the new motorhome they'll totally forget about collecting duties on the bike.

Problem solved.

kayakdiver

If you read the second post.. I said nothing of the sort. I mentioned paying GST/PST.

X-LinkedRider

If you are legitimately look to tour. The LHT is probably the BEST touring bike you can buy.

kayakdiver

Really?

Garthr

BEST touring bike the LHT?

The best is relative ...... to those on a specific budget, maybe so.... for those who are willing to invest more ..... not even close.

I'll start with the heart of any good bicycle, the frame and wheels. There's better frames, better rims, spokes, hubs and better people to build those wheels.


But, does this make for a better experience? As long as the bike does not fail in any way .... no.

BengeBoy 

The OP says he would still owe 13% import duty. BTW, I should have added a smiley to my post -- I wasn't try to call you out specifically, just pointed out that the reason the OP is having a cost dilemma is because he wants to be completely "legal" if he sources a bike in the US.

Garthr

In truth, the cost of a hundred or two or three or whatever should not stop one from investing in the bike they want. You're not buying a disposable item here .... it's something you'll have a long time.

Taxes, parts , labor ...... whatever. Get what you really want and just pay it. . . it won't get any less if you have to purchase something else later.