Raleigh New Team replica
03-05-23, 11:01 PM
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One of the big "issues" with the Raleigh Team bike replica was the slight back sloping top tube that gave it a more modern appearance.
I'm sure Raleigh had a good reason for not having a level top tube, but when cyclists see the word "replica", majority will hold the maker to it.....
I'm sure Raleigh had a good reason for not having a level top tube, but when cyclists see the word "replica", majority will hold the maker to it.....
03-05-23, 11:41 PM
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03-06-23, 01:45 AM
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03-06-23, 01:50 AM
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Fail with a capital "F". Even the 'keeper of the flame' excuse trotted out by some doesn't hold water. This is a shadow - not to mention an outright sham - compared to its predecessor. Hands down a completely misguided endeavor, which appears to have been designed by committee and executed by chimpanzees.
IMHO, of course
DD
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03-06-23, 02:57 AM
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Yes and worse than that this supposed 753 frame is supposed to be light but 1.9 kilos is definitely not what a real 753 frame should weight more like 1.5-1.7 kilos frame alone. Since the 753 is not a TIG weldable steel ,it is certainly a 631 brazed and tig welded frame rebaged as a 753. Another thing if you are nitpicking to details, the rear brake mount is TIG welded instead of being brazed unlike on the genuine 753 reynolds frames.
03-06-23, 06:38 AM
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Another attempt to play on people’s emotions and sentiments just to make money. Not often can you find this type thing in the vintage bike industry but here it is a great example.
On course Raleigh did fill the instant gratification gap some are looking for. I imagine the hunt for the real thing would take a bit of time, effort and not just money.
On course Raleigh did fill the instant gratification gap some are looking for. I imagine the hunt for the real thing would take a bit of time, effort and not just money.
Last edited by embankmentlb; 03-06-23 at 06:44 AM.
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03-06-23, 06:54 AM
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I agree that the stays are unlikely to be 753 tubing. The dropouts and bridge appear to be TIG-welded (and look nothing at all like the dropouts, stay ends, and bridges of the original Team Pro), and welding would not be compatible with the heat treating benefits of 753 steel. The dropouts look like they were water-jet cut out of steel plate rather than forged. Whether the rest of the frame is actually 753 tubing is anybody's guess.
03-06-23, 06:54 AM
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Tube Investments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Group
Anyway, I would have preferred the jersey and the bidon to have the old "bird" logo instead, but I got what I could. I'm sure a little research would should when the TI logo became prominent on Ralieghs; I'll guess well after my bike's manufacture date.
Now -- back to the actual topic...
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Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
03-06-23, 07:26 AM
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I haven't searched his blog to see if Raleigh ever responded with some sort of rationale for the shortcomings... it seems unlikely that they'd want to tackle the difficult job of defending their choices, or even admitting that it was a disappointment to those expecting a faithful reproduction.
edit: the end of that blog post has a response from Raleigh:
The project was indeed to create a like for like replica of the original TI that Joop used back in 1980 when he won the tour, and you’re absolutely right – detail is key.
Steve in Peoria
Last edited by steelbikeguy; 03-06-23 at 07:32 AM.
03-06-23, 08:10 AM
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They remind me of Wal-Mart bikes 
In the Raleigh SBDU page review, there's a comment by Neil McGowran that states:
-Kurt
I agree that the stays are unlikely to be 753 tubing. The dropouts and bridge appear to be TIG-welded (and look nothing at all like the dropouts, stay ends, and bridges of the original Team Pro), and welding would not be compatible with the heat treating benefits of 753 steel. The dropouts look like they were water-jet cut out of steel plate rather than forged. Whether the rest of the frame is actually 753 tubing is anybody's guess.
"Hi Dan
I asked Raleigh UK that specific question about the ends. Their reply was word for word the same as I got from Reynolds. Keith at Reynolds gave this reply… “TIG welding does work with the 753 and 531 tubesets (and of course many other steel alloys including our 725/525 and 853/631) as the heat input is concentrated in a small area around the joint. So that would be acceptable when done by experienced builders capable of welding thin wall tubing”
I asked Raleigh UK that specific question about the ends. Their reply was word for word the same as I got from Reynolds. Keith at Reynolds gave this reply… “TIG welding does work with the 753 and 531 tubesets (and of course many other steel alloys including our 725/525 and 853/631) as the heat input is concentrated in a small area around the joint. So that would be acceptable when done by experienced builders capable of welding thin wall tubing”
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03-06-23, 08:40 AM
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I was thinking of the differences in the rides, but this review of the construction differences is certainly an excellent summary of the complaints. He has the resources to provide examples of the right way to build it.
I haven't searched his blog to see if Raleigh ever responded with some sort of rationale for the shortcomings... it seems unlikely that they'd want to tackle the difficult job of defending their choices, or even admitting that it was a disappointment to those expecting a faithful reproduction.
edit: the end of that blog post has a response from Raleigh:
... although that's really not an explanation for why the results were so poor.
Steve in Peoria
I haven't searched his blog to see if Raleigh ever responded with some sort of rationale for the shortcomings... it seems unlikely that they'd want to tackle the difficult job of defending their choices, or even admitting that it was a disappointment to those expecting a faithful reproduction.
edit: the end of that blog post has a response from Raleigh:
... although that's really not an explanation for why the results were so poor.
Steve in Peoria
03-06-23, 02:53 PM
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They remind me of Wal-Mart bikes
In the Raleigh SBDU page review, there's a comment by Neil McGowran that states: I asked Raleigh UK that specific question about the ends. Their reply was word for word the same as I got from Reynolds. Keith at Reynolds gave this reply… “TIG welding does work with the 753 and 531 tubesets (and of course many other steel alloys including our 725/525 and 853/631) as the heat input is concentrated in a small area around the joint. So that would be acceptable when done by experienced builders capable of welding thin wall tubing”
In the Raleigh SBDU page review, there's a comment by Neil McGowran that states: I asked Raleigh UK that specific question about the ends. Their reply was word for word the same as I got from Reynolds. Keith at Reynolds gave this reply… “TIG welding does work with the 753 and 531 tubesets (and of course many other steel alloys including our 725/525 and 853/631) as the heat input is concentrated in a small area around the joint. So that would be acceptable when done by experienced builders capable of welding thin wall tubing”
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03-06-23, 04:22 PM
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In the Raleigh SBDU page review, there's a comment by Neil McGowran that states:
"Hi Dan
I asked Raleigh UK that specific question about the ends. Their reply was word for word the same as I got from Reynolds. Keith at Reynolds gave this reply… “TIG welding does work with the 753 and 531 tubesets (and of course many other steel alloys including our 725/525 and 853/631) as the heat input is concentrated in a small area around the joint. So that would be acceptable when done by experienced builders capable of welding thin wall tubing”
"Hi Dan
I asked Raleigh UK that specific question about the ends. Their reply was word for word the same as I got from Reynolds. Keith at Reynolds gave this reply… “TIG welding does work with the 753 and 531 tubesets (and of course many other steel alloys including our 725/525 and 853/631) as the heat input is concentrated in a small area around the joint. So that would be acceptable when done by experienced builders capable of welding thin wall tubing”
Would be interested in what @bulgie and @Doug Fattic think about that.
03-06-23, 04:53 PM
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03-06-23, 10:08 PM
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I wouldn't mind seeing discs on a modern interpretation. Perhaps mated with some other unique details that'd look cool, but not necessarily accurate to any original. Now that sounds interesting.
-Kurt
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03-07-23, 11:52 AM
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but I don't think they had the same seat tube logos as the Team did.
I recall seeing various Team replicas sold in Europe that were actually good bikes, albeit not up to the Team level. That was in the era when the Team bike/frame was in production.
Steve in Peoria
03-07-23, 11:54 AM
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I hate to seem dumb but, are these new replicas of the "Team" bikes or are they replicas of the "New Team" bikes (as opposed to old team)?
03-07-23, 01:24 PM
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As such, the replicas are of the Team bikes that are from the '80's.
I wonder if they ever did replicas of bikes ridden by much earlier Raleigh sponsored riders, such as Reg Harris??
Steve in Peoria
03-07-23, 01:40 PM
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I don't remember why Reynolds used to say you cannot weld 531 or 753, nor do I know why they've conveniently changed their tune now. I'm not a metallurgist, and not that great a welder tbh, so I'll leave the finer engineering points to my betters. All I can say is that frame is FUGLY and a capital-F Fail if they really were trying to "create a like for like replica of the original". Raleigh is dead to me now. I'd have more respect for them if they stuck to selling Chinese plastic frames like everyone else, it'd be more honest.
