RR3

Visual animation of riders progress. Plug your number in. I don't know how it did it but it was darned accurate with respect to me getting dropped at controls. (B086 was my number)

PBP 2015 Visualization

Results spreadsheet by Axel Koenig

PBP 2015

I cannot locate the summary statistics by country that someone compiled.....eventually ACP will publich the official ones. Warm weather countries like Brasil, Thailand, Mexico had very high DNF rates (TH was around 65% failure if my math is right). If i find the link to summaries, I will post it.

RR3

Just keep building slowly, you are not far from being able to successfully complete your first 200K Brevet if you can get your stops shorter.

I began riding again 19 months ago starting with a 6 mile ride building up to about an 80 mile ride that took me just under 6 hours. Two weeks after that I did a 200K in just under 10 hours.

The slight challenge at this time of year becomes the shorter days requiring lights and reflective gear on a 200k brevet.

I think you should give it a try when ready....GL

vic303

Why not take your doc's suggestion, and really go for it? I'm talking the HAMR record (either the Godwin one, or the new one if it gets set by Searvogel). Highest Annual Mileage Record. Right now it takes 208mi/day for 365 days in a row to set the new record.

RR3

Well, aside from well exceeding my modest capability, I do have a life and just do not understand the HAMR record to be frank. A Transam has a more defined beginning and ending that would not steal too much from my family responsibilities. The Transam is a fixed course for all competitors-that seems fair.

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe a 24 hour race. Maybe the November 13 World 24H TT championship with relatively modest goals given that I would be doing it unsupported......

vic303

While I was completely serious about the HAMR, I understand your points and why you rule it out. What about 24hrs at Sebring? The Texas Time Trials? 24hrs in the Canyon (also in TX)? Assault on Mt Mitchell next year? Isn't there a 1200k in Alaska? That would be interesting I think. Just some thoughts I had...good luck in choosing your goal, and pursuing it.

RR3

thanks....sebring is on the radar

if the budget allows, a 1200k in Japan is also on the radar especially if other americans go

ThermionicScott 

Be careful with that knee (and any other part that hurts). Longer distances aren't any kinder to injuries -- in fact, they'll amplify minor fit issues you didn't notice before. I would start making some small, intelligent adjustments to saddle height and/or cleat position now.

ThermionicScott 

Heh, I definitely did not prepare adequately for the cold weather at night! I thought the nights would be in the 50's, which usually doesn't phase me, so I rode through the first two nights in just my jersey and bike shorts! I was chattering, and dared not take any outdoor sleep breaks until it got sunny and warm again. By the end, I had acquired my arm and leg warmers, and they helped immensely. Lesson learned.

skiffrun

I'd bet on Vinnie & MarKT going.

skiffrun

Knee problems could also come from pedaling style (stomp, stomp, stomp) in too big a gear. If you aren't "doing circles" with almost no resistance, figure out how to change your pedaling style.

skiffrun

Try this unofficial site, complied by Shai Shprung: PBP stats

Richard Cranium

You know - that's a pretty good question.

At the age of 62, and having ridden my first Century solo, at the age of 15 - I can tell you from personal experience that "long distance cycling" events can - and often are life-changing events.

There is really no end to the variety and variations of each person's experience. Longish bicycles rides - the "big events" - that have posted finishing requirements can spur cycling friendships, "fr-enemy wars" - ignite love affairs or even produce divorces.

The tension - or the joy - that can develop between and among groups of riders is indeed often the most interesting aspect the ride itself.

During long brevets and other multi-century events, I've served as mentor, coach, psychologist, marriage counselor, referee and doctor. During comparative events I've been known to be a prick, a jerk a bastard and a ****er. (all at different speeds of course)

Yeah - there is no telling how a person's mind will be permanently etched after a a really good-long and character-building-tough ride. I know that the first ten years of my cycling history were peppered with memories surrounding the ideas of self-worth that one associates with athletic performance and success. But there was also the joy and feelings of camaraderie associated with the shared cycling experience. These "social" feelings were always amplified when the difficulty of a long event involved over night riding or inclement, soul-searchingly miserable weather. (and so were the bonds of friendship molded and forged with other riders during these extremes)

Anyway, as a man from Scotland once said, "I've got to ramble on."

Cheers, tailwinds to all.

Chris Pringle

When the USA sent its first delegation a few decades ago the DNF rate was also quite high. RUSA had to make a lot of changes to better prepare future participants going to PBP. Virtually every new country that sends its first delegation to PBP learns the hard way. I think you cannot put a finger on a single factor (e.g., coming from a country with warm weather) for the high rate of DNF, but a combination of factors.

I can speak from the Mexican perspective since I spearheaded the first Mexican delegation ever sent to PBP this year. We were only 6 participants with two of us being foreign citizens so we won't appear officially in the Mexican roster. 3 DNF'ed and 3 of us finished, but the official records will most likely show a 75% DNF for Mexico since only one Mexican citizen finished.

I had many conversation with those who did not finish. Here are the main reasons I believe we had a 50% DNF rate:

3. Lack of proper clothing for cold weather at night. Luckily the rain (not cold though) only affected those of us arriving in Paris the last day. I dressed in several layers and included a combination of natural (e.g., merino wool) and synthetic fabrics (e.g., rainproof jacket with excelent moisture management).

2. Little to no training with the gear they ended up taking to PBP. We are talking racks, bags, additional weight, etc. One participant had his bag fell off off the rear rack within 2 Km from the start (he had never ridden with it before.) Lost about 15-20 mins trying to secure it -- things like this start to affect you mentally. The lack of training with the additional weight also caused most participants to have premature bodily issues (e.g., knee pain, tendonitis, etc).

1. Jet lag (although not too far behind from #2 above) - They felt that jet lag was the main factor. Notice that the countries with high DNF rate also come from far away destinations. Interestingly, the NYT recently published this article about how badly jet lag affects some people. It was actually published just a few days after finishing PBP. Even though we planned to minimize the effect of jet lag by starting at 7:15 PM on Sunday (11:15 AM local Mexican time), our riders were inevitably already in the process of getting used to the French time by the time Sunday evening rolled around. Most arrived in France about four days prior to PBP. From previous trips to Europe, I knew how jet lag affected me so I arrived in France about 12 days prior. Unfortunately, this is not financially feasible to most participants who arrive from many distant destinations. In my case, I felt well the first 900 Km. The last 340 Km were a different story due to the natural cumulative effect of riding for three days with little rest (i.e., very sleepy/exhausted, Shermer's neck, chafed, bodily pain, etc.) I lost several hours trying to rest the last night, but in the end, I made it to the finish line within the 90 hours.

We are already in the process of making changes for the next four years to minimize the DNF rate.

As for "What happens next?", a 300 or 400 Km brevet (nothing too extreme!) in Japan in 2017-2018 sounds lovely. I visited two years ago and definitely would love to go back to do a brevet there. It is a gorgeous country with very courteous/polite people.

unterhausen

I think it's natural that there is a learning curve for countries that haven't had a lot of participants in prior PBP's. We're still seeing that. For example, in 2011, India had a very bad DNF rate, this year it was much better. I think it's great that more countries are participating now, but I would expect them to have a fairly high DNF rate at first. In the U.S., we have had a couple of decades of participation, and considering the jet lag we do pretty well. I don't know how to get past that, I think that the Europeans are always going to have an advantage over those of us in the Western hemisphere. The problem the French have is that their riders can easily just go home if they don't feel like things are going well.

intransit1217

Probably saddle height. Cleats haven't been touched and I'm not a masher. Has there ever been a ratcheting mech for seat posts?

Rowan

The discussion about each country's performance is an interesting one. When I did PBP, I liked to be identified as Australian and bought the requisite jerseys. But I also bought the official PBP jerseys as well, and they mean more to me now than the Australian ones. You see, there was never an official representation of my country involved; in fact, as far as I can see, no-one riding in PBP or any other randonnee is there officially as a representative of their country.

And it sort of disturbed me a bit when I saw so much fervour put into RUSA efforts to change how people qualified because of some misplaced insistence that the DNF was an indication of failure for the Americans.

There was some discussion in Australia about DNF rates, but I don't recall any push to make qualifying tougher. And I certainly don't recall the fervour in publishing DNF lists by country in any other 1200 or 1000 that I have participated in.

The thing is... each participant is paying their own way to this event. Or any other 1200 or brevet/randonnee. The national body makes no contribution financially whatsoever. Which is OK. But that doesn't give the national body a right to impose further and unrealistics requirements on individuals to satisfy some sense of nationalism. Coupled with this is that randonneuring doesn't encourage sponsorship of any sort, so the individuals are left to their own financial devices.

Apart from training and qualifying for events such as PBP, there are other challenges along the way -- financial, logistical and emotional. It is a huge commitment for anyone, way beyond the comprehension of normal people. And the reward at the end is no more than getting a medallion as a finisher.

Gathering information about why people didn't finish is a good thing, but compiling that as a shame list for countries or participants isn't, in my book. Each DNF needs to be put into individual context for it to be meaningful and for the information to be passed on as collective wisdom for future years. And I have to say this forum is a damned good place for that information to get passed along.

Rowan

I will say this, however: It is encouraging to hear riders talk of the French people who supported PBP alongside the roads. It is one of the rewards of riding the event that you are regarded as a hero each moment you hear "Bon courage" or "Alle, allez, alles!" It's something that seems to be missing from many of the tales from the speed demons, whose approach is very focussed on just one thing.

To me, each 1200 is to be savoured for the experience. I can recall some wonderful memories from each of the five 1200s I have started (three finished), and even the two 1000s I have done (especially the Giro Tasmania which was in my opinion my crowning achievement in LD riding, but that's another topic).

unterhausen

the thing about making qualification harder apparently was imposed on the U.S. by the ACP back in the day. So there are people with long memories that catastrophize if we have a bad year or talk about a DNF as if it's not that bad. I'm interested in DNF stories as an anti-shame measure. I figure people wouldn't quit if they didn't have to quit.

LWaB

Not all countries start with a high DNF rate, regardless of where they come from. For instance, Australia, Canada and Ireland have had an average or better than average DNF rate right from the beginnings. The USA historically had a very poor DNF rate, so it isn't surprising that there is some interest in keeping a high finish rate from RUSA.

Does anybody go to PBP intending not to finish? Well, I've heard it from more than one rider. Sure, it is only a bike ride and riders are adults and can do whatever they want but I'm much more impressed by those folk who overcome difficulties to finish.

RR3

I apologize if my comments about the DNF rates for particular countries was construed as anything other than trying to learn something and to support my belief that it was bloody cold and that temps could be a cause of DNF...??

The US and France both have relatively high DNF rates (ca. 25%) but they both also have a lot of shall we say mature riders who as a whole struggle.

The other factor is acclimation to time zones and relatively cold temperatures. PBP is hilly and it is also 30km longer than 1200k.

unterhausen

Randonneurs Mondial, and thus domestic U.S. 1200k's have always been longer than PBP. As I understand it, this was a requirement until recently (4 years ago?). Endless Mountains is 1240km. And the last 40km will kick your butt. Whereas on PBP, there is (arguably) one decent sized hill in the last 50k.

RR3

Totally agree. The hill guarded by the pink alligators required a 38x28 and unless my Garmin was lying to me in the forest, that left hander was 14%...second steepest on the ride....just a little kick in the face.

LWaB

Huh? There has never been a requirement for 1200 brevets to be longer than PBP, just longer than 1200km. PBP itself used to be shorter when it was run on Route Nationales (less than 1200km at times). The 1200km thing just results from folk's love of watching odometers tick over zeros.

PBP seems to get hillier over time, without actually changing much. Back in the 1990s, it was figured to be a bit over 8000m of altitude gain, then it was described as about the same height gain as Everest. Now some measure it above 11,000m but I suspect they are counting more of the meaningless undulations. While the organisers found a couple of new hills around the newest controls, the overall lumpiness hasn't actually changed much.

The Brits figure that brevets gain about 1000m of altitude per 100km distance, usually on shorter, choppier hills. Unless they specifically hunt for flat qualifiers, Brits generally don't find PBP particularly hilly. That probably helps their DNF rate.

2d2f

Next is having some kids. :-)

At the age of 32 and after my 83:45 at PBP, now I want to see my wife pregnant in a new quest for us.

ThermionicScott 

Nice! Don't try too hard -- enjoy the process.