filtersweep

I believe people can see that I have a mirror- which is a deterrence.

randya

Personally, I'd rather ride without my helmet than without my mirror. And for those of you that either have never used a mirror, or think that turning to look is still necessary with a helmet mirror, THERE IS NO BLIND SPOT - with a helmet mirror you can do a full scan behind you with some very small head movements, obviating the need to turn and look, pretty much ever.

daredevil

I ride on a narrow shoulderless road with quite a few trucks including chip trucks with double trailers. If I see one coming from the front and from behind, I'll pull over and stop. It would be just plain silly to ride without a mirror in my situation.

digger

CommuterRun

I use a mirror sometimes, on one of my bikes. It's a helpful, but not particularly important piece of gear. Not as important to me as a spare tube and pump. The reasons why may be that a head turn is more communicative to motorists and I rarely need to change lanes.

It's up to faster traffic to move into the on-coming lane to pass, when it's safe to do so. Keeping a straight, predictable, line means more than any assistance a mirror can provide.

Now, if I were on a 'bent, or riding in a manner that made it necessary to change my line frequently, such as moving right for each passing motorist, then, yeah, a mirror might be more useful.

randya

You really should put this in quotes and attribute it to Forester...

I rarely get flats and usually don't carry any tire repair tools; however, I use my mirror all the time, and it's not so I can 'move right for each passing motorist'.

MarkS

I went to Border's books (20 mi trip) and skimmed through a copy of UC. The style of writing was enjoyable, but I kept hoping to find something new, useful, or profound enough to convince me to buy the book. Most everything was a synopsis of the pros and cons of various topics, with a summary that typically came down the middle. If you've read a year's worth of forum threads, then you've heard it all. The section on positioning in traffic was fairly short, considering how hotly the topic gets debated here.

But if someone can suggest something they learned from the book, maybe I'll give it another shot sometime.

MarkS

I went to Border's books (20 mi trip) and skimmed through a copy of UC. The style of writing was enjoyable, but I kept hoping to find something new, useful, or profound enough to convince me to buy the book. Most everything was a synopsis of the pros and cons of various topics, with a summary that typically came down the middle. If you've read a year's worth of forum threads, then you've heard it all. The section on positioning in traffic was fairly short, considering how hotly the topic gets debated here.

But if someone can suggest something they learned from the book, maybe I'll give it another shot sometime.

Helmet Head

I think the main value of Hurst's book is the stuff on self-responsibility and vigilance. If you accept that motorists making mistakes (including not seeing you when they're looking right at you, as well as running red lights, speeding, etc.) is normal and to be expected and anticipated, something that you need to be prepared for at all times, then you probably won't benefit much from the book in terms of becoming a better rider. His approach is to be aware of traffic around you, and to maximize "buffer space" between you and them. His section on lane positioning IS short, because he believes positioning is mostly a reactive process, depending on where others are more than anything else.
Classic VC, as presented by Forester, focuses much more on destination positioning at intersections and their approaches, and the relevance of that to conspicuity.

I believe the ideal book would combine the two approaches, and not discount either. As far as I know that book does not exist. I recommend buying, reading and studying both Forester's Effective Cycling and Hurst's Art of Urban Cycling. One word of warning: for my taste, there is too much fear mongering in Hurst's Art...

Bekologist

Hursts book is a great read and filled with A LOT of useful information for riders of any style or skill level.

A breath of fresh air in the stale tomes of cycling method.

MarkS

Could you be more specific? What new or useful information did you gleen? It might an interesting read, but I mostly purchase books with specific, useful information. I wouldn't buy a cookbook that attempted to adjust my attitude about cooking. I would buy a cookbook that had recipes. Even if I didn't like the recipes, I could use them as a start for my own creations. Attitudes get adjusted either via institutions (parents, legal system, churches, etc.) or experience.

As an example, there was something like 2 pages dedicated to goatheads. And yet, I couldn't see where he suggested kevlar tires or other protective technology (goos, tape, scrapers, etc.). And though he provided a picture of an actual goathead seed, he didn't provide a picture of the full-grown plant, which would be far more useful if you wished to avoid areas with goatheads. And he spent 2 paragraphs talking about whether you should pull goatheads off in traffic -- and came up with no conclusion.

The same thing for dealing with glass. He described the various ways bikers deal with their tires after going through glass, but didn't reach any conclusions about best methodologies.

He discusses panniers vs. bags -- and doesn't reach any conclusions.

In each case, he takes the safe, non-opinionated approach. Maybe that's why the book is popular -- it doesn't alienate anyone.

Regarding cycling method -- there just wasn't that much there.

And HH is right about fear-mongering -- I could really do without the part about road injuries. If you're not going to tell me how to apply a tourniquette, don't tell me how bad it is to bleed.

I'm not trying to trash the book. If you read bike books for entertainment (e.g. Lance's book) then this is a better than average choice. It did look like some of the stuff on history at the start was fun ... but too short.

Once again, if there's something specific you found helpful, please ... develop your topic.

Bekologist

mark, you've obviously developed a criticism of Hursts' book much more elaborate than a quick perusal at Borders' would seem to indicate, so I'm not even going to bother

MarkS

No, I have no agenda. I am a fast reader though. I went 20 miles out of my way because I was really hoping that it would be a book jam-packed with useful, new information. I just asked for an example of something you found new or useful. A non-reply suggests that you couldn't think of anything either.

Maybe reading information-packed software tomes all the time has raised my expectations too high.

Bekologist

no, there is so much useful information in the book you should buy it and actually read it. i have no interest in trying to specify why you should buy it;

obviously Mark has determined there is nothing useful for him to glean from it, which is most likely false.

Hurst's book "The art of Urban Cycling" provides unique perspectives on many cycling issues, and is worthy a read for cyclists of any style or skill level.

His comments about every subject are in depth, well thought out and varied. His chapter on sudden stops and braking issues/ practice alone is worth the price of the book for most riders, for instance.


None of this discounts many in the cycling education community criticisms of "mirrors as method" madness for doing the powerweave in traffic.....

I-Like-to-Bike provided a unique glimpse into the criticism of HH's wacky mirror methods among cycle educators in the heavily vested VC camp.

Helmet Head

You know, for someone who only thumbed through the book, I'm impressed, because I think you nailed it here. The one exception to this is his (negative) treatment of vehicular cycling and cyclists, which he never defines.

uberleet

Ahhh, sounds like someone needs a WAHmbulance.

Feldman

I like to think I don't need a mirror and ride @ 25% of the time without one--but most of the time it's a useful, helpful device. I can't see anything negative about them unless you become dependent to the point of losing neck mobility. Makes me wonder what hole Mr. Schubert's head wandered up.

noisebeam

Annother benefit of the mirror is it allows one to be a more courteous rider.
-one doesn't need to look back to find a merge point and unneccessarily slow/disrupt passing traffic
-one can use hand signals to encourage a slowing driver to pass when safe

As an example of the later I have a 3>2 lane merge every evening on a 45mph road with NOL. I get into left side of ending lane early and stick out arm to signal merge. There is most often a very long line of fast passing cars, so I stick my arm out early to start to negotiate a gap. But too early and I end up getting in front of long line which holds up traffic for the next 1mi, but if I signal too late I can't get a driver to slow in time. So with the mirror what I do is signal with my arm early, but if a driver slows too soon to let me in I use that same arm to wave them past me. Sometimes this happens near the merge point where I notice there is one car at end of line, then a short gap which would be more ideal to merge into. If that last car or two slows to let me in I wave them past me and instead get behind them. This often results in a wave back after they pass. All this can be done with the mirror alone and only the final look back is needed before merging left.

Being a courteous driver is not just good politics, but also is part of helping smoother traffic flow, which ultimately makes riding more enjoyable.

Al

polyrhythmia

I am to where I will not ride a bike without a mirror, even on a ride like Ragbrai. When riding out on country roads, you really need to monitor every single vehicle that overtakes you. I was just listening to this show where this guy who went blind from retinitis pigmentosa, but while he still had his sight, his retina already had blind spots, any of which could easily have hidden a bicycle. I have to wonder if some of the times when people don't move an inch whether they were able to even see the bike. After all, if there are dead spots on the retina, the brain will fill them in with background, and you won't be able to easily tell anything is amiss.

A good mirror should be super easy to use. I have my mirror set up so that I can use it when using a clip-on with armrests. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any decent mirror brackets, so if this bracket fatigues and fails, I will have to make one of my own. A mirror that is constantly vibrating is useless to me.

polyrhythmia

There is something to be said for "leaving oneself an out", although this is not always possible. I have seen too many not give one single inch, even when there was no one oncoming. Even looking back at them does not work. If I had not had that mirror to monitor, I would have been flattened. In the midwest, riding on country roads, getting struck from behind is the main hazard. Dave

Cavedog

Mirror mirror, on the stalk
I use you to see, but not to gawk.

With my eyes to the front to help me steer,
You little window gives me a view to the rear.

It's nice to know what comes from behind,
For not all who approach are awake, or kind.

Some are mad, and some are sad,
but the worst ones are those that are just bad.

Some have said that you are a distraction
That I should learn other things, perform a different action.

But I think I will keep you, this small piece of glass.
More than once you've saved my ass.

kf5nd

OMG, that is precious!!!