Haydenwhyte

This saddle came on A bike I recently purchased the leather is very hard and stiff and after reading online about leather saddles I looked closer and saw that it has some surface damage. Is there a way to prevent more damage? Should I apply leather conditioner and if so what kind. I don't want to ruin the seat by making it too soft I just want to moisturize it to prevent further damage. The photos were too large to upload here so I put them on Photobucket here is a link. https://s832.photobucket.com/albums/z...ther%20saddle/
Thanks

rhm

That doesn't look too bad. I'd rub a little bit of Brooks Proofide into the surface and let it sit in the sun for a while. The fibers seem to soak the stuff up a little better when they're warm. After that, you should be good to go. To keep it from getting worse, don't let it get wet; don't leave it out in the dew or, worse, rain.

photogravity

^ +1 The BIM 39 I have is considerably dryer than that one. Still I think it can be saved.

On a side note, have you ridden an Ideale saddle before and how did you like it compared to a Brooks, assuming you've ridden either brand?

wahoonc

I have one worse shape than that, it is on one of my semi daily riders. Proofide it and ride it.

In answer to Ideale vs Brooks. I prefer Brooks. The Ideale seem to be made from a thicker leather and never seem to reach the same comfort level as the Brooks do for me.

Aaron

unworthy1

This may be a dangerous reply, but according to at least one expert (Tony C.) on the restoration of all-leather bicycle saddles, the best thing for a dried out example like this is a soak in a bucket of water .
I'm sure there are fine points to consider, and technique and timing involved...after all, we've all been taught that rain is the worst thing for leather, hence the application of waxy treatments like Proofide.
But, if I understand the theory: when there's nearly zero moisture left in the fibers, applying a waxy grease to seal it in (prevent further evaporation) won't be effective unless you have some moisture to seal in it.
I think the crucial thing is to allow for careful drying of the soaked saddle (NO heat, plenty of air circulation, no mold allowed) before you apply (a small amount of) Proofide, or the dubbin of your choice.
Do more research before you proceed with the bucket solution, I haven't done it myself...and we'd hate to see a good Ideale ruined!

Haydenwhyte

This is my first leather saddle. I haven't ridden on a brooks before. So i'll get some Brooks proofide to put on it. If I apply a little bit it will keep it from getting more small tears?

rhm

What do I know, but I suspect you may have misunderstood what he said. Soaking it in a bucket of water is a good thing to do if the saddle has completely lost its shape and you need to put it back into a saddle-like shape. After soaking for a few hours the leather is soft enough that you can easily correct curling up skirts, sagging top, and that kind of thing. Not a bad thing to do if necessary; but only when necessary in my opinion. If you try it, with a bucket of clean water, you will find the water turns the color of tea within an hour or two; surely it is soaking something out of the leather that would probably be better left in it. If you do need to rehydrate a saddle --and I'm not sure this is the case either-- I would do it by spraying onto it only as much water as the saddle can absorb.

Grand Bois

My BIM looks worse, but it's very comfortable.

Daveyates

Instead of soaking in water for a few hours the trick i do when a saddle is deformed is to dunk it in near boiling water.
Within five minutes it is very pliable and once pushed into shape it tends to stay like that and doesn't need tying up which can cause indents!
I then rub olive oil into the saddle , I read that a lot of horse riders use olive oil instead of proofhide.

JohnDThompson 

That looks like superficial damage. Apply some Proofide or SnoSeal and enjoy. I have a 1967 Brooks Pro that looks far worse than that and is still going strong:

rhm

Oh, I really wouldn't do that. This will inevitably cook the leather, making it harder (which may be good) and brittle (not so much). I realize there are certain circumstances where such extreme measures may seem called for, such as when a saddle has lost its shape and become much too soft. If you have a totally useless saddle and a crazy gamble like near-boiling water will either make it better or worse, then what the heck. But Hayden's saddle appears to be in pretty good shape. There's no reason for extreme measures at this point.

rootboy 

Oils suspended in waxes are your friend. I'd be careful with olive oil, Dave. It is one of the oils that can go rancid.

ftwelder

This is a great topic. My first "project" saddle was a very old B-17 champion narrow (first made around 1910). It was extremely weathered and beat, completely dry.. I figured it would never be usable but we will see. I first soaked it in warm water for several hours (changing water often) until it was completely compliant. I packed it with newspaper and wrapped it with worn out toe straps. I let it sit for a day and changed the paper (it's damp here in the NE) and let it dry two more days.

When it was dry the shape was correct but it looked "parched". I got impatient or something and used a reduced wax (butchers bowling alley wax) and it made it pretty weird and dry but allowed me to polish the finish a bit and bring back some of the effect of the original tan.

I then applied olive oil with a little bit of petroleum based "way" oil (motor oil for industrial machines). I had it pretty good but went a bit too far on the oiling, it's oily to the touch. I am sort of in limbo on what my next step should be. It's been stuffed with newspaper for about a year at this point.

I am thinking of another warm water bath with saddle soap this time, a good drying cycle and following with some type of greasy wax. I have a tallow/carnuba/Bee's wax mix at the shop ( we call it "Jean Claude sauce" after the old Frenchman who brews the stuff) that may work. Wax seems to draw out oil.

I am wondering if I should wash the oil out and treat it with tung oil or linseed oil. It will give it that final "museum" look and forget about it ever being a rider.

Daveyates

Hi Monsieur Rootboy , Hows you?

I think that is an urban myth about olive oil going rancid in leather.
Many many people use it and have used it for years.

unworthy1

Not just "can", it will go rancid....but rancid oil may not bother you.

One thing to keep in mind with all things relating to care/feeding equestrian saddles and how that may/not apply to leather (suspended membrane, weight-bearing) bicycle saddles: they aren't constructed the same nor do they functionally perform the same. A horse saddle has a relatively solid (wooden) form over which leather is stretched and sewn or laced.
The leather of a cycle saddle is suspended in air, held under tension with some rivets to an open metal frame.

Back to the 'bucket dump": IIRC Tony C. was not discussing this as a method of re-shaping a misshapen saddle, but to re-hydrate a very dried out one...I'd certainly use water if I had a saddle needing re-moulding, and I'll repeat my caution to do research before trying this "extreme" measure on a saddle you value.

Daveyates

The last saddle i tried it on is one of those racing Ideale ones. They are the ones which can unbolt from frame.
The lower edges had curled up and was unrideable in that state.
This was the way that worked so that i could reshape it.

But i shall bare in mind what you have said about making the leather go hard!
I just read online that soaking leather in hot water for a long time can make it as hard as wood.

Cheers

Grand Bois

BIM saddles were supposedly made by Ideale, but they were of lower quality. Mine has thin leather and the frame is rather cheap looking. The thin leather makes it comfortable, though.

rhm

To be precise, both Ideale and BIM were made by Tron & Berthet. As you can see from Hayden's photo, the BIM 39 has the same T B markings as an Ideale.



I'm curious whether there's any difference between the BIM 39 and the Ideale 39; clearly they have not just the same model number but the same frame, same rivets, same "croupon garanti" stamp. The same frame and rivets, incidentally, were used on a other saddles bearing names like Welcome, Norex, and no doubt others as well. In comparison to a Brooks saddle, these ones are remarkably small.

xuwol7

I found 2 old B17 saddles that were as dry as beef jerky.
The 1st one I soaked in vegetable oil then punched holes at the bottom and restrung, it worked but took forever for all the vegetable oil to leech out and ruined a few shorts along the way.
The 2nd one I soaked in water overnight, punched holes at the bottom and restrung, after it dried I applied sno-seal and let it dry, they both worked but the 2nd saddle seems to be a lot newer.
I still ride both saddles and they are just like new, Love the hard leather saddles.

XU

blairfredrick

I think that is an urban myth about olive oil going rancid in leather.
Many many people use it and have used it for years.[/QUOTE]

Not a myth - I had a woodworking project about 10 years ago and was making cutting boards. The only types of oil you are allowed to use on them without the wood going rancid were mineral oil or walnut oil.

I just finished rehabbing an old Sprint seat (ideale made I think) and it was bone dry. I soaked it for 2 hours, wrapped it in a towel for another 2 hours, and tied it up with straps before the two day dry. Then I coated it with baseball glove oil. After a week, I put a small amount of proofide on both sides, and put it in the sun. and was amazed that old dry saddle had come back to life.

For future projects with everything else bicycle related, refer to Sheldon Brown’s website for info on saddle renewal- he always knows! There are many different ideas, and several tips about potions to use.

Vintage_Cyclist

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