Bald Paul

Sorry, I extended my quotation of what you wrote.

Well, if there are no rules of the road to violate, can you explain why they sometimes crash?


Make some effort to stop contradicting yourself, unless you want to continue to sound like an idiot.

TC1

You do not appear to have the slightest idea of what is being discussed here, so I invite you again to discontinue.

That said, you are apparently unaware of the difference between "rules of the road" and "laws of physics". The former govern how road users interact with each other, and the latter govern how objects behave -- among other things. Read up on both topics before attempting to continue, for your own sake.


I made no contradiction, at all. You, unfortunately, have demonstrated an inability to understand the topic at hand, and as a result, should ruminate for a while on the wisdom of resorting to name-calling.

PeteHski

Ah that’s an easy one. It’s when they run out of talent.

Bald Paul

I am very much aware of the difference between the two. What confuses me is how you seem to think that they are completely separate from each other. Speed limits are set on public roads so that people won't approach that point in the laws of physics where speed alone can cause - or contribute greatly to - a crash. That "point" is not finite. It varies very much with road conditions, traffic and the actions of others, mechanical condition of the vehicle, weather, etc. 80MPH on a dry road with no traffic may be within the abilities of some drivers. 80MPH on that same road in a downpour with worn tires is a recipe for a hydroplaning disaster.

RB1-luvr

It irks me that the one PSA I've never seen on those LED boards over the highway is one about following too close. You'd think they could come up with a clever slogan to drive that home. How many collisions could be avoided with proper following distances, regardless of speed?

TC1

Rules of the road vary from place to place, and from non-existent to incredibly strict. The laws of physics are constant and immutable. It's not difficult to understand that they are completely separate.

You are demonstrating an almost-complete misunderstanding of how speed limits are set, first of all.

​​​​​​​Second, the point is that the first part of your claim -- speed alone causing a crash -- is not possible with the rules of the road which exist in the US, and many other countries.

blacknbluebikes 

Funny, I thought this thread was about "People's Perception of Risk." Frankly, that's been well studied in the context of finance, and the conclusion is that "people don't do risk rationally." So why should this be any different?
Anyone should admit that many factors affect the "risk of traveling faster than the sign indicates." Quality of the roadway, weather, visibility, crowding, familiarity, vehicle condition, operator skills... there's no end.
I don't know why that person there drives 10mph under the speed limit; their risk assessment is flawed.
I don't know why that person there drives 10mph over the speed limit, their risk assessment is flawed.
Oh, you drive exactly the speed limit. I say you are perfect, and I know everything.
Silliness. Be skilled, be careful and respect the social order.

Bald Paul

Correct me if I'm wrong here, as I'm certain you will. You were the one that stated that speed alone would not cause a crash. I disagreed with that statement. Now, you're stating that a crash due to speed alone is not possible within the rules of the road (i.e.: speed limits).
Well, duh.
If you're obeying the rules of the road, you aren't speeding. Speed limits on public roads are set with the skill of the average driver, the mechanical ability of the average vehicle, and the average conditions of the road taken into consideration.

TC1

Unsurprisingly, you are again wrong. I wrote the following statement: "It is actually impossible to crash due to speed alone, without violating at least one other rule of the road."

See if you can puzzle out how that differs from your claim above.

Duh, indeed. Do us both a favor, and read more carefully before replying.

Alan K

Well, I hate to inform you, you are living a very sheltered life in NY. You should get out more… try parts of Asia, for example. 😉

john m flores 

PSA: The ignore list is a wonderful tool.

Alan K

Primary cause of most accidents is lack or poor situational awareness of surroundings for a variety of reasons, including driving under the influence of mind/reaction altering substances. Higher the speed and greater the differential in speed between automobiles involved in an accidents, more the damage.
It would seem unbelievable to drivers in US but in general, we have far less situational awareness on roads here than good drivers do in Asia for simple reasons that in Asia, they have to account for and react to the insanely absurd behavior and actions of others from all around them, and still manage to complete the trip unscathed. Majority of the average US drivers who may consider themselves to be a safe driver here, wouldn’t survive a week of driving in a big city in Asia without getting involved in an accident.

Roughstuff

In addition, back in the 1970 envirowhacko days of "68 F and 55 MPH are my limits," there were hysterical projections of what would happen if these parameters were modified or horrors, eliminated. Much the same howling accompanied the arrival of speed control technology (led by, if you can believe it, the KENNEDYS! ).

You are correct that speed is almost always suggested as a factor, much as CoVid was blamed for almost any and all deaths two years ago.

In the USA, 40% of pedestrian deaths involve an intoxicated pedestrian.

TC1

And about 30% of cyclist fatalities were drunk cycling, as well.

I-Like-To-Bike

Drunk, as in a measured level of alcohol/blood ratio exceeding a legal limit? Or allegedly had any amount of alcohol in their system?

jon c. 

I'd like to see solid verification of that stat in any case. Doesn't mesh with the reality in my jurisdiction.

I-Like-To-Bike

Do those allegedly "drunk" pedestrian and cyclist fatalities include pedestrians and cyclists who were walking or cycling properly and IAW the rules of the road but were the victims of motorists who ran red lights and similar reckless acts who were 100% at fault while running down these allegedly "drunk" victims from behind or while on sidewalks, shoulders and crosswalks?

Roughstuff

REALLY!? I have my doubts about the pedestrian data, but some of my fellow riders are taking a bit of nip?

FBinNY 

Why do so many people think it's unsafe?.

The speed limit is a single value and the real world involves many variables. Sometimes the speed limit is well above what's actually safe based on conditions, and conversely, is well below what's safe.

I-Like-To-Bike

A bit of a nip is not the definition of being drunk or intoxicated, or evidence of fault in a fatal event except perhaps for a know-nothing good book thumper or some other dingy holy roller type character.

alcjphil

As someone who lives in a climate where safe speed limits are variable I am sure that you know that speed limits during the change of seasons are bull. Speed limits are set to protect drivers from their worst selves. I have been my worst self in the past. I choose to no longer do that
Guess what? Speeding is very often NOT safe

FBinNY 

It's a semantic and/or philosophical difference. I recognize the difference between a limit and a target.

The speed limit represents a legal boundry and is a construct representing a balance between safety and convenience (or desire) for average drivers in average cars with average conditions. The real world safe speed can be higher or lower based on specifics.

PeteHski

How would you deal with unrestricted German Autobahns? No speed limit, so you have to decide for yourself what speed is safe or dangerous.

Here in the UK the motorway speed limit is an arbitrary 70 mph, which I often find is a complete joke in most conditions.

CrimsonEclipse

Because they haven't worked in a ER for years...

alcjphil

This is because that German drivers are the most displined anywhere in the world. Don't try to drive at anywhere under the speed limit in the left lane in Germany. It simply isn't done.