Fahrenheit531 

Hey there!

I stumbled on an old Schwinn Super Sport recently. It's set up for touring with Suntour barcons and a triple chain ring. Front derailleur had a broken cage, so I went poking around and found a Huret Challenger.

The FD shifter isn't holding worth a damn. It'll keep things on the large ring (barely), but any shift down from there results in full loss of friction and a dump to the small ring. There's a lot of vertical play in the shifter from 6 to 4 o'clock and then things tighten up from 4 to 3 (looking from the side; dunno how else to describe the positioning). In the lower positions there is a bit of side-to-side play as well.

I've read some previous threads on barcon issues and have tightened the smaller, inside screw as hard as it'll go. The outside screw is worn and the slot isn't very deep. That means I can only moderately tighten it before the protruding bolt interferes with the screwdriver.

Do I just need to find a way to get things even tighter? I'm considering inserting a thin washer on the left side of the lever but wanted to consult the pros first.

*Side Issue that May or May Not be Relevant: That Challenger derailleur has some serious tension. It moves freely, nothing's stuck, but the spring -- which I can't find for the life of me -- pulls harder than anything I've run into in my limited experience. Is there a way to adjust it? If not, am I totally screwed by the combination of this derailleur and my worn shifter?

Anything helps. Thanks in advance.

Retro Grouch 

I'm thinking that, if it worked before, my first shot would be to try a different front derailleur.

Fahrenheit531 

I don't know if it worked before... the cable was locked up in the housing. Now that that things can actually move, everything's gone to hell.

HillRider

Try shimming the lever with a washer to see if that tightens it up adequately. A hard fd spring isn't making the shifter's job any easier but see if you can firm up the lever action first.

JohnDThompson 

The slotted nut is a locknut (#16 in the schematic below). Check that you have all the needed parts:

Fahrenheit531 

@JohnDThompson -- AWESOME! That was exactly what I needed. Tore the shifter down, cleaned and reassembled and it's working great. Seems I may have created my own problem earlier when trying to get WD-40 involved in removing the barcons from the bars (both are seized).

Yep. WD-40 will play havoc with the friction required by friction shifters. And sometimes I'm an idiot.

Definitely gonna add "exploded diagram" to my mental list of stuff to google when working on my bikes though.

Thanks for the help, gentlemen!

bmc5733946 

Part #19 is right hand thread, looking from shift lever side turn clockwise to release wedges. I've never seen them seized but I suppose it could happen. I have seen the hex in the screw stripped out. I have salvaged some by cutting the bars off and working from the other side.

Brian

Fahrenheit531 

Thanks Brian. In my other reading I discovered that it's a right-hand thread, but still no good. The hex isn't stripped, but that sucker sure isn't moving. I'm leaning toward cutting off the ends of the bars as you described. Is there anything on the back side of part 19? Slot? Phillips? Nothing?

Andrew R Stewart 

Sometimes you can use the bar end lever to twist the body and loosen up the expanding clamp "shoes". There's steel and Alu parts that can corrode to each other. I'll place a thin coat of grease on all the clamp parts on reassembly. So to with the lever's ratchet and friction plates. I've cleaned up dozens of these and the stem and down tube (also Command style) SunTour ratcheted levers over the last 41 years and excepting when the thin plastic friction washers were too few, never had a problem with one that had all the parts in the right orientation. Andy.

Fahrenheit531 

[Fixed it. haha]

Yes you can, and indeed there are! Both units have now been removed, courtesy of some arbitrary hammering and then torquing the inner hex bolt so hard it eventually spun the entire assembly. Sometimes brute force is the best option. White powdery corrosion (or maybe anthrax) all over the parts. Serious cleanup comes next.

Sounds like a fine idea.

The paper-thin bushings -- "friction washers" -- are intact. So grease inside the assembly is okay? After my WD-40 screwup the temptation is just to run those suckers totally dry!

Andrew R Stewart 

The key to these levers is that the slotted lock nut and hex pressure nut while jammed against each other and the "clutch pack" is only tightened against one side of the lever body. I have seen many with missing nuts and these just don't stay in adjustment or work well at all. The friction surfaces want to have the plastic washers on each side of the ratchet wheel. A thin film of grease is all that's needed on them. I do like to also have a film of grease on the ratchet wheel teeth. The clicks sound real snicky this way. At one time i filed a notch in a wide but thin slotted screwdriver to tighten the domed locknut. I usually over tighten the friction then by unscrewing the pivot bolt's head a bit by bit lessen the friction till it's just right. Andy.

JohnDThompson 

No, nothing:



That doesn't mean you couldn't cut a slot there to help remove it; it's not as if it would be visible once installed.

Fahrenheit531 

HA! The problem is part #3 , above. Ratchet Spring (A). Somebody must've used these shifters a lot, because both springs are worn down to nubs and their engagement with the ratchet is iffy at best. On the upside, all parts are now relatively clean and happy.

I suspect these springs are impossible to find without cannibalizing from my other, nonexistent barcons. Yes?

[EDIT] Wait. NO. I'll bet a bunch of Suntour's stuff featured this spring/ratchet deal. Right now I'm thinking specifically of the stem-mounted Powershift levers on my wife's mixte, which click in one direction but not the other. I'm gonna start researching this, but if anyone knows for sure about parts/model compatibility please chime in!

We need a "lightbulb over the head" emoticon.

Andrew R Stewart 

last post on this. it's easy to reverse the assembly of both the ratchet spring (this is less obtuse) and the ratchet wheel (this is more likely). Both ways the action gets weird. Andy.

Jeff Wills

J, if you're looking for replacements, check with CCC on Alberta. The last time I was there, they had a couple sets in a can.


For reference by future generations. A bigger version of the diagram:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/strongl...7612711051830/

Fahrenheit531 

Just got back from CCC, and I've got what I need. BIG THANKS for the tip, Jeff -- I'd never been there before, and it's more than worth the extra travel time.
See this face? This is my happy face.

Jeff Wills

I go there (and Citybikes) to run my fingers through the bins of old parts. Call me crazy- you wouldn't be the first.

Fahrenheit531 

Heh. I did it too. That place is awesome.

Returning to the issue at hand: New ratchet springs = flawlessly functional barcons.
Woo. Hoo.

Barrettscv 

I recently purchased a used set or Suntour Barcons. This will be my second set. The first set were NOS, and operate perfectly. My second set will be used.

What minimal tuning and or cleaning would anyone recommend before I install these?