philbob57

I bought a NOS product that didn't work as described by the seller. Although he unequivocally said it would work in my application, it didn't work at all. I returned it expecting to get a full refund. The seller refunded half the purchase price because I did not return it in its original condition. That surprised me. I sent a request for a full refund to the seller admitting that the package was opened, ut I purchased the item only because he told me it would work. I also said that I would not have returned the item if it had worked for me. He hasn't responded to that message.

I complained to ebay and got the 2nd half of the purchase price in a matter of hours. The email said the buyer protection policies led to the refund.

Question: In this sort of case, will ebay bill the seller? Or did they do the refund from their own funds?

Thanks.

markwesti

That's a good question , I don't know . I would think that if you got your refund in a few hours , Ebay sent you their money but you can bet the seller paid them back . I recently wanted to return a item (wasn't the item that was pictured in the ad) . Seller gave me a runaround , Ebay fixed it fast .

The Golden Boy 

You bought a NOS item, you opened it and attempted to use it, thus making it no longer NOS or unopened or unused and thereby destroying a healthy chunk of the value of said item.

A lot depends on what it is, what it's worth, if it was damaged in the installation process and if the item would indeed work within the application for which the seller told you. But even then, there's a lot of vagueness in this post. IMO- I think I side with the seller in this instance- you should have known what you were buying and you effectively took money away from the seller.

Desert Ryder

Last time we sold on ebay, if the seller offers returns, and the item is returned not exactly as shipped, he can refund only half of the full cost.
We stopped selling on ebay because almost every time a case is opoened they side with the buyer. Regardles if the item is described perfectly.
It sounds like ebay covered the other half of the cost but the seller still got to keep the half that wasn't refunded also.

thinktubes 

Money comes from the seller

'02 nrs

no way-if not described correctly by the seller why is the buyer at fault? "you should have known what you were buying ".are you serious? think everyone likes throwing their $$$ away?

abdon 

eBay can be downright tyrannical when it comes to their decisions, and they usually side with the buyers. The first warning sign I remember was a professional violin player that sold his old violin on eBay. The buyer claimed it was a fake, the seller was quite clear as to why it was not. At the end eBay, without ever seeing the item, refunded the buyer and told them to destroy the violin because it would be illegal for them to ship a fake item back.

If a buyer wants to screw you over you are screwed. Like buying vintage items to harvest parts to fix their own things and then return the item with the broken parts.

Roger M

Ebay seems to look out for the buyer in most circumstances. I bought an original toyota car stereo recently, that was described as fully functional with normal wear. It was a cheap buy as I was the only bidder, so I figured it a low risk purchase. Seller stated no returns.

Well, it was not as described, and took nearly a month to arrive(from Texas). The CD changer part of the stereo didn't work when I installed it. I removed the top cover and found six cds stuck in it, half of them broken(probably due to seller trying to pry them out with a screwdriver). Seller didn't respond to my messages until I filed a claim with ebay.

I got a full refund for the stereo($5) but ate the shipping($10). I kept the stereo and will try to sort out the cd changer on my own. Like I mentioned, a low risk purchase. It's not a huge deal, but the seller did not disclose the truth. I am certain that ebay got the money back from the seller.

Unfortunately, the three undamaged cds were not to my taste in music..

roadcrankr

eBay most likely, in my opinion, took funds from the seller. They almost always side with buyers.
I sold some used Dura Ace pulleys to a Canadian buyer, shipping from California.
He got impatient when the tracking ceased at their midwest hub. From there it goes on to Canada.
I told him to sit tight, because shipments lose tracking after it leaves that hub (for international sales).
He filed for a refund the next day. The pulleys arrived ten days later! So he paid me for my shipping cost and fees.
He got nice $30 pulleys for eight bucks!

philbob57

A) I know I got something NOS, opened the package, tried to use it, and thereby reduced its value by 10%-20%. Note, however, that the only reasons I bought it were 1) his listing was way inaccurate, and 2) he assured me via phone it would work for me. An accurate listing and an honest conversation (even 'I don't know if it will work or not, and I'll charge you 50% if it doesn't and you send it back') would have left him with his NOS/NIB item and me with my money.

B) I'm appalled at the way people rip each other off. I'm sorry you guys have suffered.

c) I've been honest on ebay. Almost everyone has been honest with me. I grew up in retail. I made my first sale when I was 7 (my father's store). I worked in a famous large retailer's back office as an adult. The companies I've worked for have always given full refunds when asked, even when the customer was unreasonable. I was not unreasonable in the least.

D) I will have to use feedback to warn others that the item probably won't work with a C & V bike, but I don't think I'll attack the guy. I don't like his business practices, but ebay had my back, which is good enough.

The Golden Boy 

Again- the OP is really vague. We don't know what it is, nor what it was attempted to be used for. I'm unfamiliar with the poster and do not know of the poster's mechanical/bike knowledge.

Why would you buy something that you didn't know what it was? Why would you spend the additional money to buy something NOS if you didn't know what it was?

The Golden Boy 

I realize your question just was who was paying for it- but...

I was kind of hoping you'd elucidate a little more- What were you buying and what were you hoping to do with it?

cudak888 

What was the part bought, what was the intended application, and what was the problem - specifically?

I once sold an NOS, late Huret Duopar to someone who was replacing a damaged earlier variation. There's a difference in the upper bolts between years; one uses a nut on the upper pivot; the later ones apparently do not. The fellow calmly and maddeningly asked for the upper nut even though it was clearly not pictured, not insinuated in the listing, and after I confirmed here that the nut wasn't used on all Duopars.

There's two sides to every coin, and I find it difficult to get an idea of the situation without all the facts at hand.

-Kurt

philbob57

Hmmm .... This was a very clear yes/no sitch. I described my need. He could have said 'yes', 'no', or 'I don't know'. In essence, he chose 'yes' when he should have said, 'I don't know.' If he had said, 'IDK', I'd have asked, 'What if it doesn't work?' That would have prevented the dispute.

But the dispute isn't the issue in this thread. My question was about chargeback (close to $200, not insubstantial to me).

Let's say I described the sitch accurately - the seller is fully at fault. If he pays, great; the party that screwed up doesn't profit. OTOH, if ebay pays, the seller's greed raises the costs for every user.

Let's say I'm lying - if the seller pays, I've effed him over. If ebay pays, I've upped the costs for every user.

I guess I was feeling some guilt about this, and this thread was in part about my guilt.

Thanks for the info. Again, I'm very sorry you've been ripped off. I hope you believe me when I say I deal honestly.

roadcrankr

I think most here understand your point of your post. Curiosity killed the cat!
No need to explain further. We respect your privacy and nothing left to resolve here.
So, don't feel any guilt about anything. A ten-year BF membership and scores of posts earns our trust.
My experience posted earlier occurred a few weeks ago. An honest buyer could return the funds to eBay. Up to him, tho.

smd4

Why would you trust what some stranger told you over the phone? Maybe he didn’t lie; maybe he really did think it would work.

News flash: there are more than a few shade tree bike mechanics with questionable mechanical abilities.

Schweinhund

Let me begin with a round of "Screw Meg Whitman"
Ebay ha a money back guarantee. if you tell ebay you're not happy with something because it's not as described, is broken, is a different shade of chartreuse than seller advertised whatever as long as plausible, ebay will suck the sellers money out of their account before they are ever paid. A seller only offers returns to get his product back.
Sellers are a dime a dozen, repeat customers are a semi-precious jewel to be polished.

WT160

I have mixed feeling about eBay now. I have appreciated being able to return things that are not correctly or honestly described, but I also hate it when the return policy is abused when I'm the seller.

bark_eater 

Im a bit leary about starting to sell on ebay, but I figure if I sell <$50 the occasional rip off is just another "fee"...
I've bought a lot of stuff on ebay and have had a number of problematic purchases that have needed some sort correction, like when someone who is not a collector of obsolete contraptions sells something missing parts or other less obvious faults. This kind of stuff is usually an honest mistake and at worst a "nice try".

The "problems" have been with folks who are in denial of the basic terms of the business relationship between buyer and seller on ebay, and want to enforce their own terms, or just try and draw things out to make it as painful as possible to reach resolution.

icemilkcoffee 

What did you buy and why didn't it work? Let's start from there

bark_eater 

The OP's situation sounds like it falls somewhere between an honest mistake and a "nice try" from the seller seeking to make a sale.

Taking the time to have a phone conversation with the seller to confirm the usefulness of the item really is going above and beyond what is required of a buyer in ebays transactions.

cudak888 

I recently bought a pair of rims from an eBay seller, based on a discussion we had about one of his existing listings and another set of rims he had. In the course of the discussion, I'd learned these came from a tandem factory, and some used "thick" spokes. He told me these had been laced with "thin" spokes. He made a special listing for them, I bought them.

When they arrived, I found out his definition of "thin" was 13 gauge, and that the particular brand of 13g spokes used had oversized spoke nipples - the rims had been drilled out so each spoke hole was 5.2mm. Unusable for modern 13g, much less 14g.

Some situations are not worth finding "fault" between the two parties, especially when one could argue that the headache could have been solved by being just a bit more specific with each other.

Granted, it sounds as if you ran into a particularly greedy sort, only too eager to promise you the world and still take your money when it turned out not to work despite the trumped up promises (whether out of ignorance or out of hopes you'd keep the item, we'll never know). As you've seen, eBay will refund the whole thing, regardless of circumstance, for any item (with exception to those listed For Parts/Not Working), so your risk was zero from the start.

Yes, the seller had to cover the cost, plus the shipping to you and for the return for their errors.

Might as well add "screw Jeff Bezos" here too, because Amazon is about the only alternative to eBay for online sales that aren't local. Unless anyone here wants to code up a competitor - which really shouldn't be difficult at all for a small group of reasonably competent web devs.

-Kurt

Schweinhund

Bezos isn't in the same compartment. He built Amazon. Whitman didn't build ebay. She just ruined it for buyers and sellers.

cudak888 

If you want to be pedantic about it, you’d have to say she ruined PayPal - the buyer protection program started there, after the acquisition.

Also, Omidyar was on the eBay board until 2020. It’s not as if the founder of the company isn’t partially to blame, along with a number of others likely involved in the decision along with Whitman. It’s easy to point fingers at a convenient figurehead.

-Kurt

Schweinhund

Well except paypal has never burned me, Whitman's ebay has. Two sales I was never paid for, no recourse but to eat what I lost. And Kurt, I don't know how long you've been an ebay user, but my account dates back to the 1990's I've seen what that evil witch has done.