nlerner

So I was watching two auctions for vintage framesets, both of which ended this Halloween eve. First was this sweet 70s Motobecane Grand Jubilee. Nervex lugs, full DB 531 frameset:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Ended at $106.50, and I came very close to throwing in a snipe for $111.51 but held back. Dang.

Then there was this early 70s Raleigh Super Course. Same size as the Moto, pretty good shape, straight gauge 531 in the main triangle, comes with stem, seat post, and cottered crankset:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Huh, $275?!!! WTF?!

So maybe I should sell my '72 Super Course frameset and buy a couple of Grand Jubilees with some change left over for some French parts. Wow.

Neal

auchencrow

+ 1 The Gr Jubile went pretty for a pretty low price.

I am not surprised though at the outrageous price on the SC. The main reason? Good Paint...
The buyer can easily build it into practically anything he wants, and it will look like a new bike, and have wonderful ride characteristics.
You can not duplicate that with any new bike today - at least not this quality at this price.

old's'cool

I think that's typical of Ebay. Not every auction is attended by the same set of bidders, even if the items are "comparable". Factor in time zones, bidder's attention/distraction, etc. I see many items I'm watching go for less than I would have bid, but didn't get around or get a chance to put a bid in on (basically, I don't bid other than sniping, but so far I just snipe manually).

CV-6 

Since we are bringing up mysteries, I have one...at least it is to me.

This auction for a curved tube Schwinn Paramount P19-3 went, IMO, very low. Rare bike, provenance (or maybe not), nice shape. Maybe the non-standard paint worked against it. I considered bidding on it, but decided to try to maintain some focus. Was it a steal or did I miss something?

redneckwes

I can't believe how high S.C.'s have been going for lately. The are great frames, but not all THAT rare!

elcraft

Perhaps the Motobecane scares people away because they are afraid of French Threading. I know that not all Motobecanes came with French threading, but will the casual C&V buyer be aware of this fact?

auchencrow

+1 , but it is hard to find clean ones.

auchencrow

You would think they would be more taken with the beautiful gold-lined Nervex lugs set off by the Motobecane red - but you can never underestimate Franco-phobia !

mkeller234

I was watching the Motobecane since it is a drive-able distance. The last thing I need is a new project, I actually should be selling some stuff. Purplehayesbikes always has something interesting for sale. On top of that, he is a friendly and interesting person.

BrianEugene

+1. Also, better photos.

And despite the description, I don't think that Motobecane was actually double butted 531 frame and fork. I think it's the 3 main tubes like the SC. I don't think any 70's Grand Jubilees were full 531, but (if I am correct) I don't know if that would be known by all bidders. I have a '73 Grand Jubilee and it is a fantastic bike, but it's not full db 531, only "3 tubes renforces"

jonwvara 

Neal, I blame you for the inflated price Super Courses have been going for lately--even frames with bad paint have been fetching over $200. Everyone knows that you like them, and public confidence in your judgement is such that everyone wants to get on the bandwagon, too. It's sort of like when a rumor spreads that Warren Buffet is buying up lots of a particular stock.

miamijim

The shop I worked at back in the day was a former Raleigh and Motobecane dealer. We'd get regular inquiries for Raleighs but none for Motobecanes. The ebay results dont surprise me.

randyjawa 

Ebay final values have little to do with the product or item sold. It has everything to do with who want what ever is being offered. And, if two people want the item, the price goes up, and up, and up...

There is no mystery, here. It is a simple law of supply and demand. One item (supply) and two buyers(demand). Add a third buyer, who really wants the item, and the final value sky rockets! At least, that is the way it seems, to me, after selling hundreds of bicycles, with a starting list price of $9.99 each, on Ebay.

Also, as others have pointed out, shine, glitter and dazzle will, indeed, sell.

auchencrow

I'm going to buy another SC before it's too late, especially now that I read somewhere that Warren Buffet is buying up lots of Super Courses.

nlerner

No, Jon, that's Auchen who's been talking up SCs!

I guess I had better keep my desire for a high-end Moto to myself lest the price start shooting up.

Neal

auchencrow

Who me? Isn't it jonwvara who told us about Warren Buffet?

PS- I heard those Moto Grand Jubile's, Grand Records and Le Champions will be the next big thing.

ScottRyder 

Neal, I was hoping to get that for my completely built SC and it looks my paint and decals are in slightly better shape. wow.

Scott

rhm

There was a Capella-lugged SC a couple months back, that I bidded up unreasonably with what I considered a totally over-the-top snipe. I figured, since it was local and I could pick it up in person, I could bid that much higher. I didn't get it.

jonwvara 

Funnily enough, I'm actually looking for a good-quality Motobecane frame in about a 60 cm for a good friend who recently crashed and wrecked his Grand Jubile (busting his collarbone and some other things in the process). The news of the destruction of that frame will probably bump prices upward, too, I'd guess. Sorry, Neal.

cudak888 

One is a French bike from a manufacturer that most newbies can't quite wrap their head around, even if it is 531. More importantly, French-threaded old-wives tales get more publicity than Velo-Orange's French BB's, or the keywords "French BB" on eBay.

The other is a Raleigh Super Course - a brand talked up to immortality by Sheldon Brown, and a model talked up more than the Professional by every single Raleigh collector out there. Plus, it has Nervex lugs, which some people seem to think insinuate that the bike is superior to anything else out there. Plus, it's "bronze green," a color that people consider holier than God, despite the fact that most "bronze green" frames that Raleigh produced look like monkey diarrhea.

-Kurt

southpawboston

i think this is a big part of the equation.

yep. ebay is totally capricious. sometimes an item won't sell the first time around, or won't meet the minimum reserve. then after posting it again, the bids go through the roof. i sold a TA front rack (the tiny little rack that mounts to MAFAC centerpulls) on ebay for $158. i had bought it on ebay for $40 and was hoping to merely recoup my initial purchase price. what i didn't realize when i listed it (but later learned after checking completed auctions) was that there were no others listed that week. therefore supply and demand really did increase its value to the two people who were determined to get it. i took pity on the high bidder and upgraded the shipping to express mail overnight .

this, along with an honest and thoughtfully detailed description, makes a huge difference, in my experience, at least with framesets and complete bikes. not necessarily the case with small parts or components.

nlerner

I certainly know from watching eBay that what something goes for is what some individual bidder was willing to pay at that moment. Price trends are impossible to track (and, fwiw, I watched an auction for one of those TA front racks recently end at less than $30). And that final price on the Super Course was a classic bidding war between two eBay newbies with minimal feedback. Heck, I just send my Super Courses to redneckwes, anyway.

Neal

BlueDevil63 

I was watching this closely and almost threw out a bid when I saw the fairly low price but it just didn't grab me. The curved seat tube bikes always just looked weird to me. In the end the kicker was that the bike is too small for me. I try and control myself by only buying bikes that fit me :-)

jet sanchEz

The way Merckx' have been lately I thought this one would go higher

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...253D&viewitem=

rccardr 

I corresponded with this seller last week when he listed it on CL on CA. Made what I thought was a very generous offer (his asking price but including shipping) and was told he was holding it for someone who had offered full asking price & was picking it up Monday (tpday). Then he lists on eBay, what, Sunday?

I understand about trying to get the best price and everything, but we're not talking huge differences here...

https://cgi.ebay.com/EDDY-MERCKX-TEAM...04845209843435

OOPS Spoke too soon! Starting price now boosted from 1900 to $2100, BIN now at $2500.

Guess no bids makes the market...motivated? frenzied?