War
#51
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Wouldn't it SUCK to be sideswiped at 55mph on the turnpike and have to number two in a plastic bag taped to your thigh for the rest of your life? Don't do it. And I say this as someone who had GREAT fun on a sportbike until I dropped it at over 55mph one summer afternoon in 1976.
#52
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The way you wrote your previous comment, it was not clear that you had considerable experience with motorcycles. It sounded like you would be doing it purely as a reaction to the gas prices. Still does. But at least you do have the miles in. That is key.
#53
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Some quick math shows my 29 MPG SUV, along with a 27 mile Round Trip commute (probably pretty common numbers), would cost an extra ~$20 more per week ($4 more per day) if gas went from $4 to $8 per gallon.
How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
Last edited by Riveting; 03-10-22 at 04:24 PM.
#54
Senior Member
I shed no tears for those who still chose to drive a gas guzzler after GWB caused a jump in gas prices by invading Iraq.
And after years of being warned of being addicted to fossil fuel, they are still whining about it.
It's like complaining about the high cost of cocaine to those who made it illegal.
And after years of being warned of being addicted to fossil fuel, they are still whining about it.
It's like complaining about the high cost of cocaine to those who made it illegal.
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#55
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Wouldn't it SUCK to be sideswiped at 55mph on the turnpike and have to number two in a plastic bag taped to your thigh for the rest of your life? Don't do it. And I say this as someone who had GREAT fun on a sportbike until I dropped it at over 55mph one summer afternoon in 1976.
Feeling the outside edge of my shoes scrape the asphalt, feeling the back tire settle in and squirm a little as I open the throttle back up.
I give it up only to come back to it.
Like a moth to a flame.
#56
Miles to Go
What if you could ride enough ditch the car/suv altogether (or the second car) eliminating insurance, registration, payments/depreciation, and ongoing maintenance costs? I figure my paid off, well maintained, high mile 25 MPG Camry costs me about $8.5K a year to drive and own. Take into account that my payments and deprecation were over long ago, and I carry only basic insurance. Add in payments/lease on an expensive car/SUV with sh*t*y fuel economy, and the numbers go WAY UP. If not done so, you may want to do like "Riveting" and calculate the costs (all the costs) with car ownership. You may be shocked at how high the total cost is.
The trap I was in for much of my youth was that my identity was wrapped up in my choice of transportation. I'm over that. I want money invested instead for early retirement.
The trap I was in for much of my youth was that my identity was wrapped up in my choice of transportation. I'm over that. I want money invested instead for early retirement.
Some quick math shows my 29 MPG SUV, along with a 27 mile Round Trip commute (probably pretty common numbers), would cost an extra ~$20 more per week ($4 more per day) if gas went from $4 to $8 per gallon.
How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
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#57
Miles to Go
Yes, true I am considering a return to motorcycling if fuel prices continue to climb. The difference this time is that I would go for less power and weight, and more fuel economy.
Is good fuel economy a bad reason for a beginner to start riding a motorcycle?
Is good fuel economy a bad reason for a beginner to start riding a motorcycle?
#58
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Some quick math shows my 29 MPG SUV, along with a 27 mile Round Trip commute (probably pretty common numbers), would cost an extra ~$20 more per week ($4 more per day) if gas went from $4 to $8 per gallon.
How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
How many non-cycling people would feel compelled to take to their bikes for $4 per day? Probably not many. But when you include the savings from wear and tear, let's say that's $0.50 per mile ($0.58 is the IRS standard mileage rate currently), the yearly savings of riding an avg of 2 days per week, comes out to a savings of ~$2,100 per year. And riding to work EVERY day saves $5,237 annually.
Fuel costs, even at current and predicted prices, only make up a relatively small proportion of the cost (though it is highly visible) of owning and operating a vehicle. Using a bicycle to replace 10 or 20 miles every day of driving will save money, but don't fool yourself about saving $5,237 or anything close to it. Not if if you keep owning the vehicle and are still paying the fixed costs as well as the additional costs for any other substitute transportation (rental cars, public transportation, taxis etc) to get to destinations in all weather previously reached by your automobile.
If you are driving an old serviceable paid for vehicle you are not paying that much for depreciation, but then you won't be "saving" that cost by bicycling. The amount of miles likely to be ridden by bicycle yearly for transportation purposes to replace miles previously driven is not likely to make much difference in the maintenance or wear and tear costs of that vehicle as long as it is still owned and used by the bicyclist.
#59
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What if you could ride enough ditch the car/suv altogether (or the second car) eliminating insurance, registration, payments/depreciation, and ongoing maintenance costs? I figure my paid off, well maintained, high mile 25 MPG Camry costs me about $8.5K a year to drive and own. Take into account that my payments and deprecation were over long ago, and I carry only basic insurance. Add in payments/lease on an expensive car/SUV with sh*t*y fuel economy, and the numbers go WAY UP. If not done so, you may want to do like "Riveting" and calculate the costs (all the costs) with car ownership. You may be shocked at how high the total cost is.
The trap I was in for much of my youth was that my identity was wrapped up in my choice of transportation. I'm over that. I want money invested instead for early retirement.
The trap I was in for much of my youth was that my identity was wrapped up in my choice of transportation. I'm over that. I want money invested instead for early retirement.
Last edited by Riveting; 03-11-22 at 11:29 AM.
#60
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Going completely car-free (and getting the $8.5k annual savings that comes with that) is almostattainable for me, (in fact several years ago I was riding/commuting to work most days of the year (except on the snowy days for safety reasons), and I only had to get an oil change in MY car once every two years). But living in an snowy/icy region (then and now) means I CAN'T safely ride to work on many days in the winter. I could use my spouse's car on those days, but then she'd be without a car to do her things. And there's no way my love of cycling can get in the way of her being able to get around. She fully support my riding addiction, but I HAVE to maintain the bike-wife balance. Now, if I moved to a non-snowy region, like I'm toying with the idea of, that might be a different story.
#61
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The only way to save significant dollars on daily transportation by using a bicycle or walking instead of a car/truck is to sell an existing vehicle already owned and used for that purpose and not replace it. That will eliminate the fixed costs (depreciation, taxes/registration, insurance) which make up the bulk of the IRS standard mileage rate as well as the widely quoted AAA driving costs of operating a motor vehicle (https://www.aaa.com/autorepair/artic...-operate-a-car).
Fuel costs, even at current and predicted prices, only make up a relatively small proportion of the cost (though it is highly visible) of owning and operating a vehicle. Using a bicycle to replace 10 or 20 miles every day of driving will save money, but don't fool yourself about saving $5,237 or anything close to it. Not if if you keep owning the vehicle and are still paying the fixed costs as well as the additional costs for any other substitute transportation (rental cars, public transportation, taxis etc) to get to destinations in all weather previously reached by your automobile.
If you are driving an old serviceable paid for vehicle you are not paying that much for depreciation, but then you won't be "saving" that cost by bicycling. The amount of miles likely to be ridden by bicycle yearly for transportation purposes to replace miles previously driven is not likely to make much difference in the maintenance or wear and tear costs of that vehicle as long as it is still owned and used by the bicyclist.
Fuel costs, even at current and predicted prices, only make up a relatively small proportion of the cost (though it is highly visible) of owning and operating a vehicle. Using a bicycle to replace 10 or 20 miles every day of driving will save money, but don't fool yourself about saving $5,237 or anything close to it. Not if if you keep owning the vehicle and are still paying the fixed costs as well as the additional costs for any other substitute transportation (rental cars, public transportation, taxis etc) to get to destinations in all weather previously reached by your automobile.
If you are driving an old serviceable paid for vehicle you are not paying that much for depreciation, but then you won't be "saving" that cost by bicycling. The amount of miles likely to be ridden by bicycle yearly for transportation purposes to replace miles previously driven is not likely to make much difference in the maintenance or wear and tear costs of that vehicle as long as it is still owned and used by the bicyclist.
Last edited by Riveting; 03-11-22 at 12:00 PM.
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#62
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It's not the bike that makes the riding unsafe for me, I have studded Schwalbe 38's that do pretty well. It's being around the cagers while THEY have to maneuver THEIR vehicles in the snow/ice, while I'm riding next to them, and while their windshield wipers are on, further obscuring their view of me. The reward just isn't worth the risk, for me personally.
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#63
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It's not the bike that makes the riding unsafe for me, I have studded Schwalbe 38's that do pretty well. It's being around the cagers while THEY have to maneuver THEIR vehicles in the snow/ice, while I'm riding next to them, and while their windshield wipers are on, further obscuring their view of me. The reward just isn't worth the risk, for me personally.
#64
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Yup, after I said that the savings were based on the IRS mileage rate, I realized that the insurance and taxes were a bulk of that IRS figure, so it misrepresents the savings of riding instead of driving the car that I CONTINUE to own and pay for even if it's not being actively driven. So, if I look at the fuel savings only, at the old gas price of $4/gal riding every single day (250 days per year) saves $1,000 in gas costs annually, or $2,000 annually if gas hits $8/gal, PLUS whatever is estimated to be the actual annual cost of repairing/replacing the wearable items on the car for the 6,750 miles of driving per year that I wouldn't be doing (though I have no good way to estimate many of those: oil changes, brakes, tires, transmission, bearings, engine, bulbs, mileage depreciation, etc...) , so I'll leave it out of the formula for now, MINUS the costs of the replacing the wearable bike items such as ~3 sets of tires, 2-3 chains, brake pads, cassette, chainrings, tubes, CO2 (so approx. $450 of bike expenses if I buy the good quality stuff I always do). So the annual NET savings, at $4/gal goes down to $550, or $1,550 at $8/gal., and those savings go down by 40% if I were to choose to drive 2 days per week (on avg.), especially in the snowy months.
#65
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I really wanted to live close enough to work to bike in (less than 2 miles).
I am right on the edge for me and my time constraints (14 miles).
There are multiple levels of freedom. I’m not at a place where I can be car free but I’m definitely happy when I see a coworker ride his bike to work.
I am right on the edge for me and my time constraints (14 miles).
There are multiple levels of freedom. I’m not at a place where I can be car free but I’m definitely happy when I see a coworker ride his bike to work.
#66
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#67
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Kept to my word and cycled all five days this week, even in a thunderstorm with BOLTS of rain coming down. Happily, we have had no snow this year (or most years). The recently acquired, Goretex Pac-lite rain jacket, (even without hood) performed like a champ! Also got to test my new Iowa Bikes pogie lites. Even while taking on a little water through the openings (it was raining that hard) my hands stayed warm and dry in 46F temps!
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#68
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Kept to my word and cycled all five days this week, even in a thunderstorm with BOLTS of rain coming down. Happily, we have had no snow this year (or most years). The recently acquired, Goretex Pac-lite rain jacket, (even without hood) performed like a champ! Also got to test my new Iowa Bikes pogie lites. Even while taking on a little water through the openings (it was raining that hard) my hands stayed warm and dry in 46F temps!
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#69
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Wouldn't it SUCK to be sideswiped at 55mph on the turnpike and have to number two in a plastic bag taped to your thigh for the rest of your life? Don't do it. And I say this as someone who had GREAT fun on a sportbike until I dropped it at over 55mph one summer afternoon in 1976.
#70
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I rode a NT700 (the previous model to the NC700X) for many years, until the carpal tunnel in my left wrist finally made clutching all day impossible. I did test ride a NC700 with the DCT and almost pulled the trigger on it.
#71
Miles to Go
I have never rode a DCT. Even though I had several FJR's, I never rode one of those without the clutch lever, either. I would certainly like to try the DCT before purchasing.
#72
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Kept to my word and cycled all five days this week, even in a thunderstorm with BOLTS of rain coming down. Happily, we have had no snow this year (or most years). The recently acquired, Goretex Pac-lite rain jacket, (even without hood) performed like a champ! Also got to test my new Iowa Bikes pogie lites. Even while taking on a little water through the openings (it was raining that hard) my hands stayed warm and dry in 46F temps!
but I don't ride in down pours too often
#73
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Car and Rider and War
Not looking for sympathy here. Just going to say what I'm doing at the moment.
I've been riding to work ever since I began working as a janitor in the 1970's on the tail of the gas crisis. I've been riding to work 8-11 miles each way for 35 years in my current job.
We spent a week of vacation last week driving a 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup truck we own camping every night and going mountain biking and hiking in the desert. It got 18 mpg. I tried driving slower and did, but the trucks in the desert make 75 mph easily.
Yeah the gas was an expense, but camping is cheap and 4 out of 8 nights were free. I don't feel too guilty for doing that trip. But I do think about it a lot.
I've always sort of identified with my cars in a similar way to my bikes. I avoid shuttle rides, but don't hesitate to drive to a trail head for a mountain bike ride.
My way of living is not unusual, but that doesn't justify it. Just think of the manifold changes that would result if people can't afford fuel. Employment issues and inflation, cleaner air.
This forum is definitely North American based I gather.
I know quite a few folks who are retired and living in vans, mobile homes, what have you. I'm pretty sure they're feeling the pinch from fuel price increases, but I feel sure they'll continue their nomadic ways. Most of them maintain a home address- they're pretty well off considering- and continue to ride bikes.
I've always known it was important to ride a bike to work for me because the environment and health. If the increase in fuel prices helps more people discover a bicycle lifestyle that is a great silver lining.
Obviously the demand for sources of fuel continues to drive conflicts in this world. My own fuel consumption patterns directly contribute to this thirst.
My wife likes the idea of getting a camping van. I've always preferred tent camping. We also do bike tours and more and more bike packing adventures all the time! I just don't like the idea of dragging all that stuff down the road burning up tons of fuel especially with the warming climate. I sort of look forward to maybe a hybrid pick up truck/camper to obtain good fuel efficiency and a camper.
As far as mountain biking goes, we are lucky to be able to ride from home most of the time to get it done. The trails here are as good as anything we drive 100's of miles for. It's just curiosity to want to experience the natural beauty of different places. And I have to admit it's also vanity that drives us to travel.
Domestic travel is one thing. What about air travel? Flying has to become more expensive in the short and long term. What will happen to places which depend upon tourism? We've already seen significant effects from the pandemic!
I work for a major freight carrier. While I don't think the company will go away, I do know that freight costs are going to increase a lot! We'll experience inflation. I wonder how my investments will fare.
As I consider the prospects for my eventual retirement, the idea of not riding to work every day and being relied on to show up and get the work done seems depressing! I love being a useful person. Driving around the country in a camper van just feels wrong to me. I would never say that to my nomadic friends.
Those people in Ukraine don't get to go on long camper van drives. Those humongous land yachts I see on the roads are not attractive to me. Most of the world, if they saw this stuff, what would they think?
The insatiable consumerism of the USA and it's corporate pursuit of profit has created the place in which we ride our bikes. I try to reconcile myself to the harsh reality, but serially fail to do anything effective to change this culture for the better, and instead pursue endless bike rides and immersion in nature.
I've been riding to work ever since I began working as a janitor in the 1970's on the tail of the gas crisis. I've been riding to work 8-11 miles each way for 35 years in my current job.
We spent a week of vacation last week driving a 2018 Toyota Tacoma pickup truck we own camping every night and going mountain biking and hiking in the desert. It got 18 mpg. I tried driving slower and did, but the trucks in the desert make 75 mph easily.
Yeah the gas was an expense, but camping is cheap and 4 out of 8 nights were free. I don't feel too guilty for doing that trip. But I do think about it a lot.
I've always sort of identified with my cars in a similar way to my bikes. I avoid shuttle rides, but don't hesitate to drive to a trail head for a mountain bike ride.
My way of living is not unusual, but that doesn't justify it. Just think of the manifold changes that would result if people can't afford fuel. Employment issues and inflation, cleaner air.
This forum is definitely North American based I gather.
I know quite a few folks who are retired and living in vans, mobile homes, what have you. I'm pretty sure they're feeling the pinch from fuel price increases, but I feel sure they'll continue their nomadic ways. Most of them maintain a home address- they're pretty well off considering- and continue to ride bikes.
I've always known it was important to ride a bike to work for me because the environment and health. If the increase in fuel prices helps more people discover a bicycle lifestyle that is a great silver lining.
Obviously the demand for sources of fuel continues to drive conflicts in this world. My own fuel consumption patterns directly contribute to this thirst.
My wife likes the idea of getting a camping van. I've always preferred tent camping. We also do bike tours and more and more bike packing adventures all the time! I just don't like the idea of dragging all that stuff down the road burning up tons of fuel especially with the warming climate. I sort of look forward to maybe a hybrid pick up truck/camper to obtain good fuel efficiency and a camper.
As far as mountain biking goes, we are lucky to be able to ride from home most of the time to get it done. The trails here are as good as anything we drive 100's of miles for. It's just curiosity to want to experience the natural beauty of different places. And I have to admit it's also vanity that drives us to travel.
Domestic travel is one thing. What about air travel? Flying has to become more expensive in the short and long term. What will happen to places which depend upon tourism? We've already seen significant effects from the pandemic!
I work for a major freight carrier. While I don't think the company will go away, I do know that freight costs are going to increase a lot! We'll experience inflation. I wonder how my investments will fare.
As I consider the prospects for my eventual retirement, the idea of not riding to work every day and being relied on to show up and get the work done seems depressing! I love being a useful person. Driving around the country in a camper van just feels wrong to me. I would never say that to my nomadic friends.
Those people in Ukraine don't get to go on long camper van drives. Those humongous land yachts I see on the roads are not attractive to me. Most of the world, if they saw this stuff, what would they think?
The insatiable consumerism of the USA and it's corporate pursuit of profit has created the place in which we ride our bikes. I try to reconcile myself to the harsh reality, but serially fail to do anything effective to change this culture for the better, and instead pursue endless bike rides and immersion in nature.
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#74
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ALL the world governments AND our wants of convenience have contributed to the current world situations....
This is an opportunity for me to make more inclusive reasoning to take my bike longer, further, and into more inclement weather. Gotta fight war profiteering the best I can!
This is an opportunity for me to make more inclusive reasoning to take my bike longer, further, and into more inclement weather. Gotta fight war profiteering the best I can!
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#75
Senior Member
I live in Canada and our "carbon tax" on petrol is going up on April 1st and no it is not a joke. I wish we had the current USA prices...
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