Eric F 

How do you come up with this stuff? I'm active on a few different bike forums, and on "post your gravel bike" threads, you can bet that someone will be proudly showing off their Surly.

Jeff Neese

Well, therein lies the heart of the matter perhaps. That are those that are trying to position themselves as the arbiter of what is and what is not a "gravel bike". I imagine they would love it if we posted our gravel builds so they could weigh in. "Yep - that's a gravel bike" or "No, you got it wrong."

And why do I necessarily need mounts for bags, on a bike used for riding on gravel roads? What's the connection between road surface and carrying capacity? Several of my gravel bikes have limited capacity to add bags, but I ride them on gravel roads. And none of mine are 1x, so are those also not gravel bikes? What about the fact that all of my gravel bikes are steel? It sounds like you would say those are not gravel bikes either. In fact, according to a small handful of people here, I don't have any gravel bikes at all, despite the fact that 90% of my riding is dirt roads and they are specifically built to be optimized for that.

Maelochs

which is why so many Tour de France stages are won by riders on downhill bikes, while the majority of downhill races are won by riders ion rigid tandems ... it is the rider, not the bike.

Hello, people. Practice with me:

I Was Wrong About That.

Really easy to say, and even easier when everyone else already knows it.

I know the first couple times can seem unnatural, but start using it whenever it is true and see what happens.

Eric F 

Do you have an example of what an "early club racer" looks like? This is not a category I'm familiar with. None of the road bikes I raced (starting in 1992) would do very well on the routes where I typically ride my gravel bike. My MTB would handle them, but I'm not a fan of its performance on the paved sections of those rides.

tomato coupe

If the thought process wasn't so scattered and incoherent, I'd think it was an AI penning posts again.

Maelochs

last chance for you to grow up ...

It has been said, repeatedly, that most gravel rides tend to be long, and there tend not o be convenience stores on grave roads. Thus it is wise to bring all food and drink one might need on a multi-hour ride. Sometimes auto access is limited or even forbidden---a lot of the reason people like gravel is they can ride swiftly as on pavement bt not have to dodge cellphone-zombies. This means that if something breaks, you had best be able to fix it or at least have a spare or Something because it could be a very long walk in cleats to get to somewhere someone could rescue you. And since the weather might change ... or you might start early in the morning or ride into the evening ... it makes sense to bring an extra layer or a place to stow a layer you have removed.

People have said all this but you don't really want to learn, you want to pretend you are right.

If you Really wanted answers to your questions you would do what I suggested earlier---google local gravel riding clubs, visit their Facebook pages. Go ask them what is wrong with them, that they bought so much hype. Go ask them why they are not riding 20-year-old touring bikes or early 80s road bikes. Go find out for yourself, from the people who actually ride gravel regularly.

That is what you would do if you really wanted to know.

As it stands, I am not sure if you are desperately in need of attention or have a humiliation kink,. Either way, I am tired of it all.

If you are honest, go learn. If not, go away.

livedarklions

This is a really dumb argument--a bike is just an assemblage of components. People find components with certain characteristics more useful for some types of riding than others, and develop a short-hand term for that type of assemblage. You can write off any difference you want as "placebo effect", but you're going to need to prove that. I could probably ride gravel on a old Schwinn Stingray, but I'm pretty sure I'll be faster and more comfortable on about a zillion other types of bikes, and the relevant differences are not going to be limited to tire width. I'm going to be damned uncomfortable and inefficient on the Stingray, there's a huge amount of room for improvement. There's no reason to assume this isn't true for bicycles higher up on the suitability scale--a tweak here and a tweak there can continue to produce actual performance improvements and/or comfort When you buy a whole bike, best to have a few or many of those tweaks already incorporated..

BTW, the camera thing is complete nonsense--you're literally saying that the camera gear doesn't matter except when it does. The fact that you CAN take an excellent photo with a rudimentary camera does not mean that that camera is suited to take all sorts of pictures that would require more specialized lenses and/or exposure level adjustments.

Eric F 

My point was that some of the features found on some (not all) bikes in the current gravel bike category haven't "been there all along". As I have said multiple times, there are variations within the gravel bike category, serving different needs of people who use their bikes in different ways. What is necessary/preferred for one person might not be for another.

genejockey 

"Too much sanity may be madness! And maddest of all - to see life as it is and not as it should be!"

prj71

This is my gravel bike. Took the suspension fork off and replaced it with a carbon fork. Replaced the 29 x 2.4 tires with 29 x 2.0 tires. POOF!!! Instant gravel bike!!! Consider yourself enlightened!!!

More stable on the loose gravel than any drop bar gravel bike and much easier to control than any drop bar gravel bike.
.

tomato coupe

That's just crazy talk. Next you'll be telling us that there are variations in the road bike category (aero? lightweight? endurance?) and the mountain bike category (hardtail? full suspension?).

Jughed

Nice Bike!!

I wonder why the racers are not riding that setup?

Eric F 

Gearing, aerodynamics, comfort, rolling efficiency.

prj71

It lacks top end speed because I'm limited to how large of chain ring will fit on the front. Some gravel bikes will come as 2 x 10 (46/30T) or 1 x 11 (40T).

This bike is a 1 x 11 but currently will not fit a 40T chainring because it would hit the chainstay. It's maxed out at a 32T right now.

That's ok. I'm not really doing any gravel racing with this bike. Just for my own personal off-road gravel pleasure riding.

prj71

I'll agree with all but one of those....Comfort. This thing is way more comfortable than my road bike or any any drop bar gravel bike I have tried.

Jeff Neese

No doubt. Sorry if I'm missing your point. I don't have a Surly, but I'd post my bikes there too, along with descriptions like "This one is a 1989 Trek 970 rigid mountain with Albatross bars, this other one is a Trek 750 hybrid with drop bars, and this other one over here is a 1993 Rockhopper. I'd describe the tires I used, the gearing I chose, etc. And the guy who posted a Surly would say "nice bikes." I would return the compliment.

Jeff Neese

Absolutely - I couldn't agree more. That's been my point all along. The categorization of any bikes as "gravel bikes" is arbitrary. Whether it's Hybrid, or Urban, or Commuter bikes, all these marketing terms come and go. A gravel bike is whatever suits your needs on the gravel roads you ride.

I half expect some of the self-appointed "experts" here to now come along and tell us what is, and is not, a gravel surface and what is true gravel riding. We'll probably be told that a hard-pack dirt road isn't gravel riding, or a path off through the woods isn't either.

Eric F 

Run what works for you. Many people prefer the variety of hand/body positions afforded by a drop bar, not just for comfort reasons, but also for aero reasons.

Jeff Neese

With all the discussion about handlebars, I may have missed it but I haven't seen mention of anything other than drop bars and flat bars.

I have these Soma Oxfords (Nitto Albatross) on my 1989 Trek 970, and with these bars and Top Contact tires, it's just about the perfect gravel bike. They're really just mustache bars with longer ends. Search YouTube and there are a number of people that are using Mustache bars on their gravel bikes, and they do work really well. I use these wheels when there's not too much loose gravel and the dirt roads have been packed down. Otherwise I run Maxxis Ikons (which are a pretty fine gravel tire, in my experience).

The nice thing about mustache bars is that you can still have a "weight forward" riding position when you want it, but you have other hand positions as well. Climbing is better with your hands a little further back. I find them very comfortable. Wrist position is very natural.

PeteHski

Yet the mainstream market for "gravel bikes" is pretty consistent in what that definition entails. There are of course sub-categories, but if I go looking for a "gravel bike" I know pretty much how it will be specced for the task. It's no different to searching for a "road bike" or a "touring bike" in that respect.

PeteHski

Your idea of a perfect gravel bike isn't everyone's idea of a perfect gravel bike. Maybe that's your issue here?

big john

But they haven't, not in their current form. It's as if I said enduro bikes have been here all along because some can ride an enduro course on a mountain bike from 1992. Sure, there is some overlap and differences are nuanced in some cases but just because you can put big tires on some c&v bike doesn't make it the same thing as a modern bike made specifically for that purpose.

Eric F 

I don't see it as all that arbitrary. When we look at the bikes that people consider gravel bikes (or are marketed as such), we can identify common features. I don't see it being different than how we categorize road bikes, MTBs, track bikes, etc. Now, being that cyclists can sometimes be quirky folk, it's not unusual to see bikes that don't land fully in a named category (Surly loves those quirky folk). For example, prj71's bike is still (what I would consider) a MTB because of its frame design and gearing limitations, but has been improved for use on gravel (non-technical dirt) with tires that are lighter and more efficient, and a lighter rigid fork. I would expect it to serve the needs he has stated extremely well, and I think it's a pretty sweet machine. That said, that's just my opinion, and some of my reasons for having that opinion. I'm not an authority on anything.

Eric F 

Those are pretty cool-looking, but I would never consider them for the way I ride my gravel bike. If they work for you, rock on.

EDIT: My previous comment about handlebars was related to gravel racing, specifically. Drop bars are the predominant choice, for the reasons I mentioned.

prj71

If I ever were to get what the current market calls a "gravel bike" for the purpose of racing or bike packing I would probably buy a Salsa Cutthroat, Fezzari Shafer or Specialized Diverge.

Last year I entered a gravel bike race and did it with my Trek Domane since it fits 700 x 40 tires. I outfitted it with Continental Terra Speed tires. There were times during the race where the gravel / forest roads were a little dicey and I wished that I had wider tires and flat bars, but then there were also few pavement sections of the race or gravement sections (really packed gravel) where I was glad I wasn't riding the bike I posted above.