Dawes-man

I'm building a couple of bikes for a friend and his wife - both Hetchins Nulli Secundus, one a 24" 1954 with straight stays and the other a 20" 1956 with vibrant stays. Both are going to be fitted with 1949 Sturmey Archer FM 4-speed hubs, one from June of that year and the other from December. The later one has a normal, brass, flip-top oiler on the barrel but the earlier one has two: one a flat 'Garland' brand cap with a tiny slit in its centre for oil to enter the hub at the drive-side end of the barrel and the other a hole in the non-drive side end cap with a clip that swings in place to cover it. What gives?

I wasn't sure there actually was a slit - you can hardly make it out - but I squirted a tiny amount of penetrating oil into the middle of the Garland thing and saw it seep away so could it be designed to prevent over oiling? They say that a couple of drops of oil added every couple of weeks is enough and you'd probably have to wait that long for a whole tablespoonful of oil to seep through.

And then, what's the hole in the end cap? It's very slightly smaller than a spoke hole and gives onto the secondary planet cage and pinions. Presumably, it's to add oil and is capped to stop the oil leaking out but as they did away with it 6 months later was it simply 'over-engineering'? Or was the design of the FM hub changed in that time doing away with need for a second oiler?

Both hubs are new old stock with 36 holes. I bought them from sellers in France and Italy around 10 years ago and they've sat in a drawer ever since, as projects changed along the way. I'm wondering if I should grease the bearings but would prefer not to. I've stripped a coupe of AW hubs but I have this idea that 4-speed hubs are trickier... would oiling them prodigiously be enough?

As always, any help you, my fellow enthusiasts, can give me will be very gratefully received.

Lastly, just an observation, has anyone else noticed a dearth of period SA parts? It's almost impossible to find steel pulley wheels or zinc fulcrum clips guides, both now plastic... and expensive! And forget about finding a quick release connection for the indicator chain...

rhm

Re the Garland oiler, I have seen many, but never one with the rubber seal intact. They were around for only a short while, around 1950.

Re the other oiler, I have a 1949 FC hub with that oiler, and until you mentioned it I have neither heard of nor seen another example. I guess, based on what you say, that this oiler was even more short-lived than the Garland oiler.

Add for what you should do... The ball, cup and cone bearings (and there are three cup and cone bearings in each hub) should have grease seals that will in theory hold the oil in the hub. Modern grease is said to be much better than old stuff. I cannot explain that, am not an expert. But the old stuff definitely turns to wax after fifty or sixty years, and it will let oil leak out and get everywhere. Adding oil will not turn the old waxy scum back into grease, but as long as it is present it should prevent damage. Still, I think you should do a "half assed" overhaul of both hubs. Remove the left hand locknut and cone, remove the right hand locknut and cone (along with the several parts that come off with it) and remove the right side ball cup (along with the complete guts if the hub that come off with it). If the "complete guts" unit looks clean and oily, I see no need to take it apart. But clean and grease (with new, modern grease) the balls of all the ball cup assemblies. And follow published instructions on adjusting the hub.

Dan Burkhart 

To add to the above, I have bought NOS Sturmey Archer hubs from the 80s, and upon opening them up, found that they had been shipped dry when new, and had a bit of corrosion inside. They cleaned up easy enough, but lesson learned. I always pull the internals from NOS hubs to inspect.

clubman 

I've got a '51 alloy shell FM with the same two oilers. Like you, I've never built a wheel with it so no help here. I'll go to school on you.

Dawes-man

Hi rhm, thanks for your comments. Looking at an exploded diagram of an FM hub from Tony Hadland's site I can only see 2 cup & cone bearings...

rhm

I'm not able to open that PDF right now, on my phone, but if memory serves, there are cones at both ends of the axle, and I'm guessing those are the two you see. The one on the left runs in a ball cup that is more or less permanently mounted in the hub shell (this is where your second oiler is). The one on the right runs in the driver. So the driver, which holds the cog, is the right side ball cup; but it is also a cone in its own right, turning in a larger ring of balls retained in a larger hub part, the name of which escapes me at the moment. At any rate, that is the third ball and cup assembly I was referring to.

markk900

pastorbobnlnh 

I believe the 3rd set of bearings is part # K60 in the diagram, "R.H. Ball Ring" and just below that is # 329 "Ball Bearings 3/16" diam. (per set of 24)."

Hope this helps.

rhm

Exactly! K60, K63, and K462, together, comprise the 3rd cup and cone assembly. You'll see it as soon as you pull the driver. So in fact you can grease all three ball bearing assemblies if you take off the axle cones and the driver. You don't necessarily need to remove the right hand ball ring.

If you do want to remove the right hand ball ring, you will probably have to build the wheel first. Some force is required to get that ball ring off, t's not easy to get a grip on a bare hub.

Dan Burkhart 

I have done it by putting a couple of old spokes in one side of the flange, clamping the spokes in the vise, rest the flanges on a piece of wood to avoid marring the flanges, and go to town on the ball ring with a hammer and a punch.The longer the hub is in service, the more tightly the ball ring will be screwed in. NOS hubs usually are not that tight.

noglider 

JaccoW

As for the steel pulley wheels, I bought four of them recently in a very rusty condition but I expect them to clean up nicely. You're welcome to one of them for the $2.50 + shipping. Alternatively you can find lots of them on British eBay.

fietsbob

No oil port,? the right end of the axle is hollow,
... removing the shift chain, you have an oil port.
lay the bike over .. drip oil in the hollow axle,
Put the shift chain back in.






....

52telecaster

ty, i enjoyed that.

noglider 

I can't tell you how many times I've watched it. His delivery is spectacular.

Dawes-man

After a month of procrastination I've just today bitten the bullet and removed the gear from the hub. It was simple. For some reason I'd got it into my head that the 4-speed FM was different from the 3-speed AW I'd taken apart before. It isn't.

The left (non-drive) side nut, spacer and cone came off easily after I rediscovered the SA cone wrench I bought and last used around 10 years ago. Then the nut, lock-washer and cone on other side. Holding the shell in the same hand as a small punch, the ball ring came loose after the first tap with a hammer. as Dan Burkhart said was common with NOS hubs.



It's a thing of beauty, to me anyway. To think I'm the first person to look inside for very nearly 70 years is quite awe inspiring. Inside, any oil or grease that was there when the hub left the factory is long gone. As rhm said, there are 3 sets of ball bearings, the driest of which is the 24-balls in the ball ring - as dry as a bone. I'm glad I took your advice, rhm... thanks!










Of note, this hub has the 12-spline driver which is very hard to find cogs for but I managed to get one from Hilary Stone. It also has the 'quick-release' type indicator chain, also very hard to find the cable end part for but which I managed to get from a friend here in Japan.




It seems impossible to find 30W non-detergent oil in Japan. Nobody seems to have heard of it. I have a can of low detergent Motul 30W which I'll use to oil the hub to start with and then get some non stuff sent from the UK or the US, where it is easy to find. It'll soon wash the other stuff out, I should think.

Dawes-man

That's very kind of you. Is it just the pulley wheels you have? Or the clamps as well?

JaccoW

The clamps too but you could also just take a modern clamp and put the metal wheel on:

Dawes-man

Hi JaccoW, Both the pulleys and the clamps look really good. I've sent you a PM. Cheers!

Durabo88

I am little bit of jealous, because I could never find a hub like that in 36 hole drilling. Most were sold as 40 hole drilling for the English market I guess.

Road Fan

And just to emphasize the diversity, my 1951 FM (40 spoke alloy) only has the common metal oiler port. I’ve laced it to a Super Champion Gentleman, but it still needs an overhaul.