Super Record 1985 - which bottom bracket?
02-18-24, 06:04 AM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Super Record 1985 - which bottom bracket?
I know this has been discussed many times, but I haven't found an answer.
I have a Super Record crankset from 1985, the original bottom bracket (probably Nouvo Record) had an asymmetric spindle with a length of 114.5 mm and according to velobase this crankset needs 112 mm. On the other hand, according to the often quoted Campa paper on bottom brackets, the Super Record bb then had a spindle of 112.5 mm and the Nouvo Record 115.5 mm. Now that I want to buy a modern BB that will fit this crankset, I have two questions:
1. According to my calculations, I need a 119 mm symmetrical BB. Is this correct?
2. Camapagnolo used its own taper back then. Should I buy a JIS or ISO bottom bracket?
I have a Super Record crankset from 1985, the original bottom bracket (probably Nouvo Record) had an asymmetric spindle with a length of 114.5 mm and according to velobase this crankset needs 112 mm. On the other hand, according to the often quoted Campa paper on bottom brackets, the Super Record bb then had a spindle of 112.5 mm and the Nouvo Record 115.5 mm. Now that I want to buy a modern BB that will fit this crankset, I have two questions:
1. According to my calculations, I need a 119 mm symmetrical BB. Is this correct?
2. Camapagnolo used its own taper back then. Should I buy a JIS or ISO bottom bracket?
02-18-24, 08:07 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,780
Bikes: Numerous
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1678 Post(s)
Liked 3,099 Times
in
914 Posts
Oh boy, you are standing on the precipice looking down the Campy BB rabbit hole! It hasn’t been brought up in a while but there are a few threads here going into exhaustive detail.
First and most simply, you will need an ISO taper. There may be others, but modern Campy and Phil Wood BB are the only modern I can think of. Unless the original BB is trashed, I would just replace the balls and use that, or just buy a similar used if you need better condition or Italian/English. Off the top of my head the 115 post CPSC was asymmetrical and 113 wasn’t but you can use either. Nice thing about the old stuff and friction shifting is a mm or two between friends isn’t a big problem. I’d look for a 115 mm ISO.
First and most simply, you will need an ISO taper. There may be others, but modern Campy and Phil Wood BB are the only modern I can think of. Unless the original BB is trashed, I would just replace the balls and use that, or just buy a similar used if you need better condition or Italian/English. Off the top of my head the 115 post CPSC was asymmetrical and 113 wasn’t but you can use either. Nice thing about the old stuff and friction shifting is a mm or two between friends isn’t a big problem. I’d look for a 115 mm ISO.
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
02-18-24, 02:09 PM
#3
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Oh boy, you are standing on the precipice looking down the Campy BB rabbit hole! It hasn’t been brought up in a while but there are a few threads here going into exhaustive detail.
First and most simply, you will need an ISO taper. There may be others, but modern Campy and Phil Wood BB are the only modern I can think of. Unless the original BB is trashed, I would just replace the balls and use that, or just buy a similar used if you need better condition or Italian/English. Off the top of my head the 115 post CPSC was asymmetrical and 113 wasn’t but you can use either. Nice thing about the old stuff and friction shifting is a mm or two between friends isn’t a big problem. I’d look for a 115 mm ISO.
First and most simply, you will need an ISO taper. There may be others, but modern Campy and Phil Wood BB are the only modern I can think of. Unless the original BB is trashed, I would just replace the balls and use that, or just buy a similar used if you need better condition or Italian/English. Off the top of my head the 115 post CPSC was asymmetrical and 113 wasn’t but you can use either. Nice thing about the old stuff and friction shifting is a mm or two between friends isn’t a big problem. I’d look for a 115 mm ISO.
. Also, because the original spindle was 114.5 mm long, asymmetric and such length doesn't appear in the circulating excerpt from the Campagnolo's paper. I'm even more confused because some other people seem to have calculated the same length as me (basically they assumed that both outer parts of a spindle should be the same length -> of the right side), but I'm not convinced and the result is 119. I'd like to have a nice chain line, not only for good shifting, but also for nice efficiency and no derailleur rub.
02-18-24, 03:14 PM
#4
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 486
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 452 Times
in
232 Posts
Firstly, yes to ISO 1.8° taper. You'll have to determine cup / threads per the width frame shell. Length could be fudged depending on adjustable BB design, or sealed bearing type, whether or not drive side is to bottom out at the shell face.
Kind of a general rule in the aftermarket replacements, Campy double is symmetric and triple is asymmetric.
Suggest to review the product info directly at the bottom bracket makers site. They'll guide you and some will take a return if an incorrect fitment or need. Phil or Omni Racer is a good start.
Kind of a general rule in the aftermarket replacements, Campy double is symmetric and triple is asymmetric.
Suggest to review the product info directly at the bottom bracket makers site. They'll guide you and some will take a return if an incorrect fitment or need. Phil or Omni Racer is a good start.
02-18-24, 03:44 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,831 Times
in
1,997 Posts
Firstly, yes to ISO 1.8° taper. You'll have to determine cup / threads per the width frame shell. Length could be fudged depending on adjustable BB design, or sealed bearing type, whether or not drive side is to bottom out at the shell face.
Kind of a general rule in the aftermarket replacements, Campy double is symmetric and triple is asymmetric.
Suggest to review the product info directly at the bottom bracket makers site. They'll guide you and some will take a return if an incorrect fitment or need. Phil or Omni Racer is a good start.
Kind of a general rule in the aftermarket replacements, Campy double is symmetric and triple is asymmetric.
Suggest to review the product info directly at the bottom bracket makers site. They'll guide you and some will take a return if an incorrect fitment or need. Phil or Omni Racer is a good start.
By the way, this is different than vintage Phil that started before the CPSC changes.
‘the advantage with Phil is the chainline can be fine tuned.
not mentioned yet it appears is the date code of the cranks and the era of the front derailleur. Derailleur with the winged logo and the lip? You need the post CPSC arm without a lot of finessing. I have placed a later derailleur with pre-CPSC arms and it requires much fiddling. Not sure of the date code of your drive side arm, post an image of the back side of it off the bike.
in the original record era, Campagnolo road spindles were never symmetric.
02-18-24, 03:46 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,780
Bikes: Numerous
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1678 Post(s)
Liked 3,099 Times
in
914 Posts
Yeah I’m pretty sure. If I was taking a multiple choice test, 119 would be the first answer I crossed out. I’ve owned several bikes with SR double cranks but I always used same era Campy BB. You can always splurge on a Phil Wood BB - cups are adjustable from both sides and you can fine tune your chain line that way if needed.
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
Likes For Spaghetti Legs:
