Is it safe to cycle on radioactive roads?
#1
ignominious poltroon
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked 3,443 Times
in
1,802 Posts
Is it safe to cycle on radioactive roads?
While sipping my Latte, I read on the NPR website that Florida lawmakers are considering paving the roads through semi-tropical paradise with radioactive compounds.
Where I grew up (Chicago area), this was a tried and true method for disposing of body parts, so on one level, it seems like a great idea. But then I got to thinking that if I am not surrounded by a metal cage, but instead am on a road bike, I would likely be exposed to more radiation, not to mention the road dust that I would have to breathe.
Is this something that is, or should be, a safety concern?
(I didn't know whether to post this here or in P&R, but since the latter is a club that I am not a member of, and since there is nothing even remotely political in the motivation for anything happening in Florida these days, A&S is really the only choice available.)
Where I grew up (Chicago area), this was a tried and true method for disposing of body parts, so on one level, it seems like a great idea. But then I got to thinking that if I am not surrounded by a metal cage, but instead am on a road bike, I would likely be exposed to more radiation, not to mention the road dust that I would have to breathe.
Is this something that is, or should be, a safety concern?
(I didn't know whether to post this here or in P&R, but since the latter is a club that I am not a member of, and since there is nothing even remotely political in the motivation for anything happening in Florida these days, A&S is really the only choice available.)
Likes For Polaris OBark:
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,811
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,020 Times
in
572 Posts
If they glow at night it would make evening rides interesting.
I'm confident that our august body of legislators have only the best interests of the citizenry at heart in all their actions.
I'm confident that our august body of legislators have only the best interests of the citizenry at heart in all their actions.
Likes For jon c.:
#3
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,992
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6196 Post(s)
Liked 4,811 Times
in
3,319 Posts
Depends on how radioactive they are. Get a Geiger counter and go around your home or anywhere else. Until you understand what level is threatening and what level isn't, all that clicking it does will have you scared.
However this in no way is to be taken that I agree or disagree with them doing this. Nor does it even indicate that I read the article... which I didn't.
However this in no way is to be taken that I agree or disagree with them doing this. Nor does it even indicate that I read the article... which I didn't.
Likes For Iride01:
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,824
Bikes: 1996 Trek 970 ZX Single Track 2x11
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 614 Post(s)
Liked 565 Times
in
429 Posts
Is it safe to cycle on radioactive roads?
Still, in an open-air environment such as a roadway, particularly given that the product is "regulated for the presence of radium-226," (to be below 'safe' levels), then it might well be a non-issue. After all, millions of people build with granite slabs and blocks. Can't say I'd like to be living and sleeping completely on such slabs, which have "trace" amounts of such elements, but this open-air roadway environment seems a much lower risk. Though, in time, human growth being what it is, even a relatively remote section of roadway might well have homes built right near it; so, "open air" might not be what it once was, at such a spot.
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa...d-construction
What could happen? How bad could it be? After all, the EPA along with the legislators have all our best interests at heart.
Likes For Clyde1820:
#5
ignominious poltroon
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked 3,443 Times
in
1,802 Posts
PSA (and I'm not talking about your prostate): Rn ≠ Rn
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,624
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2976 Post(s)
Liked 1,182 Times
in
771 Posts
Just wrap yourself in tin foil.
Living in Chicago...radioactive roads in Florida = Same-Same...either is likely to be the cause of death.
Living in Chicago...radioactive roads in Florida = Same-Same...either is likely to be the cause of death.
Last edited by prj71; 05-09-23 at 09:16 AM.
Likes For prj71:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3777 Post(s)
Liked 1,048 Times
in
792 Posts
The problem, as I see it, is our dependence on the manufacturing of fertilizers, which this is a byproduct of, because Florida has the geology, along with two other states to produce 90% of the phosphate for agriculture. Florida is working with the EPA to evaluate if this is a safe use of phosphogypsum.
However, Regenerative Agriculture has proven that we don't need to constantly applying fertilizers to our crops when we work with nature. (This is totally different from Organic farming). If it's not used in the roads we still have the problem of storing this stuff and it's not just in Florida, it's around the world. One example from Spain
https://www.science.gov/topicpages/p...al+environment
However, we keep producing it, because of the money. This is just one byproduct from things we make and it's catching up with us.
This is just one guy that started doing Regenerative agriculture and has totally gotten off fertilizers, at the same time rebuilt his soil which prevent massive runoff during heavy rains. Too much other stuff I can go into, but would make this a very long post...
However, Regenerative Agriculture has proven that we don't need to constantly applying fertilizers to our crops when we work with nature. (This is totally different from Organic farming). If it's not used in the roads we still have the problem of storing this stuff and it's not just in Florida, it's around the world. One example from Spain
https://www.science.gov/topicpages/p...al+environment
Highly acidic phosphogypsum wastes with elevated potential for contaminant leaching are stack-piled near coastal areas worldwide, threatening the adjacent environment. Huge phosphogypsum stacks were disposed directly on the marshes of the Estuary of Huelva (SW Spain) without any impermeable barrier to prevent leaching and thus, contributing to the total contamination of the estuarine environment.
However, we keep producing it, because of the money. This is just one byproduct from things we make and it's catching up with us.
This is just one guy that started doing Regenerative agriculture and has totally gotten off fertilizers, at the same time rebuilt his soil which prevent massive runoff during heavy rains. Too much other stuff I can go into, but would make this a very long post...
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,941
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12195 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times
in
1,109 Posts
Assuming this isn't high level radioactive waste, it won't be a problem.
You are constantly exposed to radiation. If you breath in highly radioactive particles, you will die. So I am assuming this won't use high level waste.
But you've got all manner of radiation hitting the Earth 24/7... you are used to it.
You are constantly exposed to radiation. If you breath in highly radioactive particles, you will die. So I am assuming this won't use high level waste.
But you've got all manner of radiation hitting the Earth 24/7... you are used to it.
Likes For late:
#9
Full Member
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,395
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 2,979 Times
in
1,920 Posts
my initial reaction, is, well a reaction. I'd not go there. Unless teeth & hair is nothing of importance to you, I guess have at it?
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
Likes For Troul:
#11
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Well, if the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) declares it safe, then ... Of course, soldiers were told "As little as one foot of earth will protect you against radiation, in a blast" (during the early 'battlefield' testing of the nukes), too.
Still, in an open-air environment such as a roadway, particularly given that the product is "regulated for the presence of radium-226," (to be below 'safe' levels), then it might well be a non-issue. After all, millions of people build with granite slabs and blocks. Can't say I'd like to be living and sleeping completely on such slabs, which have "trace" amounts of such elements, but this open-air roadway environment seems a much lower risk. Though, in time, human growth being what it is, even a relatively remote section of roadway might well have homes built right near it; so, "open air" might not be what it once was, at such a spot.
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa...d-construction
What could happen? How bad could it be? After all, the EPA along with the legislators have all our best interests at heart.
Still, in an open-air environment such as a roadway, particularly given that the product is "regulated for the presence of radium-226," (to be below 'safe' levels), then it might well be a non-issue. After all, millions of people build with granite slabs and blocks. Can't say I'd like to be living and sleeping completely on such slabs, which have "trace" amounts of such elements, but this open-air roadway environment seems a much lower risk. Though, in time, human growth being what it is, even a relatively remote section of roadway might well have homes built right near it; so, "open air" might not be what it once was, at such a spot.
https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa...d-construction
What could happen? How bad could it be? After all, the EPA along with the legislators have all our best interests at heart.
Last edited by livedarklions; 05-10-23 at 09:41 AM.
Likes For livedarklions:
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times
in
518 Posts
As it has never been done before, you're going to have to work it out yourself.
Get about two thousand people to go riding every day.. Give half of them a route map that covers the roads made with the radioactive phosphogypsum, and the other half a route map that covers only non-radioactive 'control' roads. Report back with detailed health reports on the participants in five, ten, twenty, and fifty years.
Get about two thousand people to go riding every day.. Give half of them a route map that covers the roads made with the radioactive phosphogypsum, and the other half a route map that covers only non-radioactive 'control' roads. Report back with detailed health reports on the participants in five, ten, twenty, and fifty years.
Likes For ClydeClydeson:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 1,282
Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked 847 Times
in
410 Posts
1. Really depends on how old you are... there should only be long-term effects of muscle fibrosis and some neurological issues that show up in about 20-25 years. For a cyclist, you may prematurely lose the ability to raise your right pinky-toe (proximity to roadbed and inverse-square law) or perhaps show undue skin tanning below the sock-line, which is a potential violation of Rule #7 (ruling could be challenged, however, non-arm violations lacking precedent). If one is already past a certain age, issues become less impactful and may not limit activities of daily living.
2. It might be unwise to eat this road material, as opposed to regular asphalt. Just like chewing gum, asphalt stays in your stomach for 300 years. Everyone learned that in 2nd grade.
3. This is also a case of "relative risk." When riding, especially in Florida, one must recognize more immediate and likely threats. This includes pythons, alligators, oversized angry bikehater pickmeup trucks and the evasive but ever-present, Florida Man.
2. It might be unwise to eat this road material, as opposed to regular asphalt. Just like chewing gum, asphalt stays in your stomach for 300 years. Everyone learned that in 2nd grade.
3. This is also a case of "relative risk." When riding, especially in Florida, one must recognize more immediate and likely threats. This includes pythons, alligators, oversized angry bikehater pickmeup trucks and the evasive but ever-present, Florida Man.
#14
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Albuquerque NM USA
Posts: 492
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 304 Times
in
194 Posts
I think you'd really have to know the details to understand this. My guess is it's non-issue and they are not relying on people being in cars to be safe.
This sounds a bit like the old saying, "the solution to pollution, is dilution". There is, of course, some merit to that for things that occur naturally and the problem is only because we concentrated it in the first place. Which apparently is the case here.
I could very well imagine that the radioactive levels are a fraction of background radiation when this material is spread out on a road, and this is a non-issue. But I could also imagine this is just a way for an industry to try to socialize an expense. It certainly seems like something worth considering and not dismiss out of hand. But it should also be scrutinized closely. I would in no way trust ANYTHING the industry says about this.
This sounds a bit like the old saying, "the solution to pollution, is dilution". There is, of course, some merit to that for things that occur naturally and the problem is only because we concentrated it in the first place. Which apparently is the case here.
I could very well imagine that the radioactive levels are a fraction of background radiation when this material is spread out on a road, and this is a non-issue. But I could also imagine this is just a way for an industry to try to socialize an expense. It certainly seems like something worth considering and not dismiss out of hand. But it should also be scrutinized closely. I would in no way trust ANYTHING the industry says about this.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 1,709
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 825 Post(s)
Liked 1,659 Times
in
784 Posts
I think they should first try using radioactive materials while repaving the streets in Disney.
In a few years, Mickey will be eating the tourists.
In a few years, Mickey will be eating the tourists.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,725
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5793 Post(s)
Liked 2,585 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Lots more info is needed to discuss this intelligently.
Like just about everything else, radiation is much more about degree than a binary pass fail deal.
We're all exposed to radiation 24/7/365 with the biggest variable being where we live. So, the question is how much MORE are we actually talking about. Personally, I'd be much more concerned with road dust, but have no data on how much dust is actually created and where it goes.
Sadly, and not wanting to veer into politics, the USA is experiencing a giant failure of leadership, and loss of institutional credibility. Actual fact based discussion of things like this is virtually impossible, with people only believing facts or "alternate facts" according to their own credos.
Like just about everything else, radiation is much more about degree than a binary pass fail deal.
We're all exposed to radiation 24/7/365 with the biggest variable being where we live. So, the question is how much MORE are we actually talking about. Personally, I'd be much more concerned with road dust, but have no data on how much dust is actually created and where it goes.
Sadly, and not wanting to veer into politics, the USA is experiencing a giant failure of leadership, and loss of institutional credibility. Actual fact based discussion of things like this is virtually impossible, with people only believing facts or "alternate facts" according to their own credos.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 05-11-23 at 04:31 PM.
Likes For FBinNY:
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3777 Post(s)
Liked 1,048 Times
in
792 Posts
To emphasize what I said in post #8...The problem is our continuing manufacture of this byproduct, in addition to all the other toxic things we are continually producing. That's the real problem. We are destroying natural habitats and biodiversity with this crap and yet we continue to produce it every year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosph...0metric%20tons.
And this is just one of many toxic things we have to deal with and much of this hardly makes the news. This problem is catching up with us, but no one is paying attention. Just the other day I saw an article about California sending toxic waste to an out-of-state dump. This is happening all the time in all 50 states and most countries around the world. It will catch up to us and I'm not sure we can fix it at that point.
#19
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Lots more info is needed to discuss this intelligently.
Like just about everything else, radiation is much more about degree than a binary pass fail deal.
We're all exposed to radiation 24/7/365 with the biggest variable being where we live. So, the question is how much c h MORE are we actually talking about. Personally, I'd be much more concerned with road dust, but have no data on how much dust is actually created and where it goes.
Sadly, and not wanting to veer into politics, the USA is experiencing a giant failure of leadership, and loss of institutional credibility. Actual fact based discussion of things like this is virtually impossible, with people only believing facts or "alternate facts" according to their own credos.
Like just about everything else, radiation is much more about degree than a binary pass fail deal.
We're all exposed to radiation 24/7/365 with the biggest variable being where we live. So, the question is how much c h MORE are we actually talking about. Personally, I'd be much more concerned with road dust, but have no data on how much dust is actually created and where it goes.
Sadly, and not wanting to veer into politics, the USA is experiencing a giant failure of leadership, and loss of institutional credibility. Actual fact based discussion of things like this is virtually impossible, with people only believing facts or "alternate facts" according to their own credos.
I agree that an intelligent conversation about the health issues raised here is probably beyond our knowledge and/or competence. However, this certainly has the appearance of being the result of some pretty heavy lobbying by the fertilizer industry to clear up their waste issue by spreading this material over large swathes of the state. I don't think this issue can be intelligently discussed without a deep analysis of the interest group politics involved and the level of competence of the FL legislature and its governor, and this is supposedly not a political forum, so maybe we should pass on the whole topic here. This is an issue that probably has next to nothing to do with cycling, I seriously doubt that the environmental dangers contemplated would be especially bad for cyclists.
#20
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
To emphasize what I said in post #8...The problem is our continuing manufacture of this byproduct, in addition to all the other toxic things we are continually producing. That's the real problem. We are destroying natural habitats and biodiversity with this crap and yet we continue to produce it every year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosph...0metric%20tons.
And this is just one of many toxic things we have to deal with and much of this hardly makes the news. This problem is catching up with us, but no one is paying attention. Just the other day I saw an article about California sending toxic waste to an out-of-state dump. This is happening all the time in all 50 states and most countries around the world. It will catch up to us and I'm not sure we can fix it at that point.
https://youtu.be/8zfqiMUoxBs
And this is just one of many toxic things we have to deal with and much of this hardly makes the news. This problem is catching up with us, but no one is paying attention. Just the other day I saw an article about California sending toxic waste to an out-of-state dump. This is happening all the time in all 50 states and most countries around the world. It will catch up to us and I'm not sure we can fix it at that point.
https://youtu.be/8zfqiMUoxBs
This really is the wrong forum for this. P&R would be more appropriate.
#21
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
1. Really depends on how old you are... there should only be long-term effects of muscle fibrosis and some neurological issues that show up in about 20-25 years. For a cyclist, you may prematurely lose the ability to raise your right pinky-toe (proximity to roadbed and inverse-square law) or perhaps show undue skin tanning below the sock-line, which is a potential violation of Rule #7 (ruling could be challenged, however, non-arm violations lacking precedent). If one is already past a certain age, issues become less impactful and may not limit activities of daily living.
2. It might be unwise to eat this road material, as opposed to regular asphalt. Just like chewing gum, asphalt stays in your stomach for 300 years. Everyone learned that in 2nd grade.
3. This is also a case of "relative risk." When riding, especially in Florida, one must recognize more immediate and likely threats. This includes pythons, alligators, oversized angry bikehater pickmeup trucks and the evasive but ever-present, Florida Man.
2. It might be unwise to eat this road material, as opposed to regular asphalt. Just like chewing gum, asphalt stays in your stomach for 300 years. Everyone learned that in 2nd grade.
3. This is also a case of "relative risk." When riding, especially in Florida, one must recognize more immediate and likely threats. This includes pythons, alligators, oversized angry bikehater pickmeup trucks and the evasive but ever-present, Florida Man.
Given what's in the article, I think the likelier issues arise when these roads will inevitably need to be dug up, repaired and/or replaced.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3777 Post(s)
Liked 1,048 Times
in
792 Posts
It's only political if we allow those in power to let us be fooled by the BS rhetoric. This is NOT a partisan issue, both sides are screwing this up. This isn't even an American problem, the whole world is creating a toxic mess. Money, not politics is what drives this problem of toxic pollution. Maybe we need a Money Corruption forum.
#23
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,978
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,538 Times
in
1,047 Posts
Any credible bicycle safety issues here? Belongs wherever environmental discussion/rants go, probably P&R or Foo.
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
#24
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,098 Times
in
5,054 Posts
It's only political if we allow those in power to let us be fooled by the BS rhetoric. This is NOT a partisan issue, both sides are screwing this up. This isn't even an American problem, the whole world is creating a toxic mess. Money, not politics is what drives this problem of toxic pollution. Maybe we need a Money Corruption forum.
Seriously, this is definitely not the forum for a big debate on the green revolution.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,752
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4393 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times
in
1,865 Posts
There aren't enough hard data in that article to be able to judge.
A less serious response- maybe it matters whether you also have a banana in your back pocket at the same time.
A less serious response- maybe it matters whether you also have a banana in your back pocket at the same time.
Likes For MinnMan: