jon c. 

Do you have a cite for that?

Of course not. Make up whatever you wish for forward your position and contend that it's true.

Do you believe there is no valid scientific evidence for masks and vaccines? If so, you aren't worth bothering with. If not, it's a rather absurd analogy. Or you're just trolling.

(edit: the irony here just occurred to me. my objection is to accepting as science those opinions not supported by strong data and investigation. if as a society we become more accustomed to accepting this then everyone can "follow the science" to support whatever they wish to believe. and we've seen the result of that.)

Prof. Cummings is acting as an advocate. She is forwarding opinion, not science. There is not sufficient data to reach these conclusions and everyone in this discussion knows that. The story on which the thread is based admits that. But you want to believe what she says is data based science so you contend that it is absent any factual evidence.

I take no issue with Prof. Cummings opinions. Likely substantially correct IMO. But I don't confuse opinions with science. It's isn't yet possible to obtain data good enough to draw conclusions and until there is we shouldn't pretend there is.

But I recognize there's no point in continuing to argue with ideologues. Have at it children.

himespau 

Of course vaccines are efficacious, but so many people made the same argument that because I don't have the time to explain the basic fundamentals of molecular biology and immunology to you, the fact that I'm a professor of microbiology with many, many years experience in the field is just an appeal to authority fallacy and my word about vaccines working has no more strength than some random idiot's word that they don't because he once read something on facebook that said they didn't.

Any time you try to say your word on something you are not an expert on is worth just as much as the word of someone who is an expert in that field because they don't take the time to spell out all the little details to you because of "appeal to authority fallacy" you are creating an even bigger logical fallacy as you fall into the depths of Dunning Kruger.

livedarklions

This is so tortured, it's funny. The issue is that Tesla put this technology on 400,000 cars in the absence of data that showed it was safe. When the data emerges that shows Tesla has been concealing the actual casualties and fatalities, you go on about people needing to prove it's not safe. Nonsense. Your admission is basically that she's probably right but we're all fools to take her more seriously than you because she didn't publish the confidence interval in a newspaper article.

JW Fas

And they have the gall to charge $15000 extra for it.

livedarklions

After removing sensing capability due to shortages. The fan boys don't want to talk about that part, it's absolutely indefensible.

I-Like-To-Bike

This over the top salesmanship does provide evidence that opportunities still exist for selling "stuff" and dreams to suckers who are born every minute. Seems to be a lot of bedazzled and/or gullible tech bros and Musk/Tesla cultists with more cents than sense.

tungsten

https://www.commondreams.org/news/te...hes-and-deaths

PeteHski

Only about 20% of North American Tesla owners are "suckers" and that figure drops to around 10% worldwide.

The vast majority of Tesla owners are not really the "Musk/Tesla cultists" that you are mocking. Your attitude makes any sensible balanced discussion of the pros and cons of FSD impossible. But I do agree (like 90% of Tesla drivers worldwide) that FSD isn't worth $15k.

PeteHski

Great click-bait headline. But the graph just looks like a Tesla sales chart. Is there any attempt at normalising the data to take account of vehicle numbers/performance/miles driven? I'm all for critical data, but this looks like journalistic bs to me.

I-Like-To-Bike

FSD has not been available "worldwide."
Tesla FSD Beta takes its first steps outside of North America
Extract:I'd say that declaring that 20% of a Tesla owners are "suckers" for buying FSD despite its flaws and lack of value is acknowledging the unpleasant truth that this is evidence that there Seems to be a lot of bedazzled and/or gullible tech bros and Musk/Tesla cultists with more cents than sense.

PeteHski

Did you notice I put "suckers" in quotation marks? It was actually your declaration, not mine. I was just pointing out that a large majority of Teslas on the road don't actually have FSD and that I don't personally think FSD is worth the cost. Anyway I see you are just a sore Tesla troll, which makes any discussion a complete waste of time.

I-Like-To-Bike

Got it. All commentary, articles, or posts that reflect the negative aspects of Tesla's dangerous and irresponsible testing of cars operated by wonky "beta" software on public highways and street is the product of trolls spouting fake news.

I suggest you seek the discussion you seek on websites that that are favored by Tesla-stans where no negative shade is allowed to be cast (without a torrent of howls of "fake news!" "troll!" or "Tesla shorts!") on the capabilities, usefulness and future potential of Tesla so-called "self driving" features.

In the meantime the general public, to include pedestrians, bicyclists and other motorists are just unwilling (as well as willing Tesla owners) potential crash test dummies. All are being being exposed to unnecessary added risk from so-called self-driving vehicles being tested on the street under the control of "beta" software and untrained testers (who maybe are closely monitoring and correcting system errors), all for the benefit of amusing some Tesla owners and boosting the ego of the Tesla CEO.

PeteHski

The trolling is from your persistent derogatory remarks about Tesla owners. It adds nothing to the discussion other than demonstrating your spite and arrogance.

JW Fas

This tweet seemed apropos.

lex further

Was that actually fixed?

I-Like-To-Bike

"Beta" mode of so-called FSD has been re-designated "Supervised" mode by Tesla. Still the same old, same old wonky software. Tesla still does not accept any responsibility or liability for its operation.

ScottCommutes

As a driver, you should pay attention to the world and drive at a speed such that you can come to a safe stop if something suddenly enters the roadway. It doesn't matter what it is - a pedestrian, a kid biking down a driveway into the street, a deer, a dog, whatever. Many drivers violate this principle.

I might come to a skidding stop for a jaywalker that jumps in front of me, but I will see a crosswalk with a pedestrian on it in plenty of time to hit the brakes.

PeteHski

So you must drive at no more than 5 mph then?

79pmooney

Nah. You'll just get VW-like software that recognizes CEOs.

ScottCommutes

The secret is following distance. I hate it when I'm biking and I see no cars for a couple of minutes and three pass all on top of each other. Just spread out. The person with the most space in front of him is the best driver. When you aren't worried about hitting the car in front of you, then you gain the time to look at the sides of the road. Anything entering the road in front of you is likely to be clearly visible before it enters the road. There are places where things might "pop out" from, but those spots will be clearly visible as well so you can slow and look.

Troul 

This is a growing issue that cops could easily ticket with tailgating offense... never happens tho.

Joe Bikerider

If you have not figured you that Tesla is a complete lie and scam by now then I can't help you. I have a Telsa model 3 in my garage and it works great. There is a charger there too. I never use the auto anything. If you have been believing Elon Musk regarding anything then you are a fool.