steine13

Learned Friends:

The thread title is not a boast or a a challenge, it's more of a warning.. it has taken me a couple weeks to get this bike on the road, and it will take most of the winter to turn it into something righteous

On the other hand, I owe the BF brotherhood [no offense bianchigirl ] some progress notes, since I had the frame sent to me by the peerless Mad Honk after he acquired it in a trade from jdawginsc ...so it's kind of a community adoption thing.

Along the way, I picked up another bike for parts, which was a bit of a time sink...anyway, I thought I'd create a build thread for people who enjoy that sort of thing.

Let's start with this picture. @Mad Honk posted it over on the "ISO & Trade" thread.

See post #4333

I'm only a hair over 6', having shrunk a bit over the last few years, and I wasn't sure I could ride it. However, my winter beater is a large Cannondale H400, which is nearly as tall, so after some measuring in the garage, I went for it. The frame arrived promptly and extremely well packaged. So much so that I preserved everything in case I'd have to pass the frame on for fit reasons.

A couple days later, on the Enabler thread -- otherwise known as 'eBay / CraigsList finds - "Are you looking for one of these!?" Part II' -- @cb400bill kindly posted a link to a Trek touring bike from the 80s that had lived a hard life in a wet basement. I wound up picking it up for parts and posted some pictures [[url]https://www.bikeforums.net/22283570-post64391.html] and briefly had some delusions about turning it into an IGH bike, because it turned out to be a nice 84 620 that someone had clearly loved and upgraded over time. Alas, I was no match for the stuck Phil bottom bracket, and before I damaged anything, I decided to send it off to an undisclosed member for further TLC -- so that shipping box comes in right handy... C&V-ers take note: NEVER throw anything away .
The Phil Wood BB tool I used got good and warped while the BB did not move a micron.

BTW here's a picture from my haul at the co-op a couple weeks back... I really couldn't do much with the centerpull brakes, there are some small parts missing -- no surprise -- and some fit issues with the fat aluminum stays and bridges. It was a useful exercise, and inexpensive, in any event. Not shown is a NOS 600 hub that apparently was never laced up but has grip marks on the body... makes me think someone tried to unscrew the freehub, which must have been an interesting exercise. It feels alright, and I'm looking forward to turning it into a wheel. Of course there'll be another two-week wait for the spokes, but once the white stuff starts flying, who cares?
Oh yeah: The bottom bracket shown is a Suntour in really good shape, but the spindle I picked up is Dura Ace of the proper width, but they do not play well together. If anyone has an idea where I can find a suitable ~113 mm Suntour spindle in 2021, I'm all ears.




Back to the Cannondale -- it's a 1987 ST600, and when I showed BF photo to my wife, she was convinced it was some amateur paint job, but no: they came from the factory that way, and this very paint job, squiggles and all, is in the '87 catalog [see vintagecannondale.com].

I put in an origin8 headset -- I wanted a chromed Tange but they're backordered, of course -- using a janky homemade installation tool a friend of mine had put together from a 5/8" threaded rod and some nuts & washers. This worked great. I finally got to ride the bike today, when the temperatures headed over 60 and the sun came out. Good work if you can get it in Michigan in November. The parts are all over the place -- wheels from a 97 R200, 32 mm tires, and as Dr. C pointed out elsewhere, that is all that will fit, at least with fenders. The seatpost and B17 saddle are borrowed from my T400 touring bike, the crank is from the Trek I just bought, as is the handlebar and the Dura Ace levers. The rear derailer is an RX100 from who-knows-where, the pedals are MKS copies of an old Lyotard model; the brakes are Tektro 559 and they just barely fit -- on the short side. They do work well, though.

This bike is clearly on the SPORTS end of Sport Tourer. I am now having indecent thoughts about 650B wheels, since I wanted to keep this at my folks' house for all sorts of riding, including dirt trails in the woods and vineyards, which aren't too gnarly, so 32 mm might be OK, but I had been hoping for something like 38 mm Paselas. I have a backordered A32 OC in 700c and a Dyad in 650B coming from Velocity in Grand Rapids... It's well and good to measure, but sometimes you need to see things in the flesh.

Here are some pictures from earlier today, riding with a couple of friends. I can't decide if I'm embarrassed or proud of the twine ersatz cable holder, but it'll do for now. It's been many years since I've ridden a 42 cm bar, and this bike needs a 46 or 48 cm Nitto Noodle, probably on a short Technomic stem. Overall, I had a blast, and am looking forward to building this bike up properly in the coming weeks. Thanks to the BF community for all the help!
cheers -mathias











There is something wrong with the perspective in this photo... I am straddling the bike, not standing next to it, and I'm NOT eight feet tall.

cb400bill

Nice color on your Cannondale. I always liked the graphics on that era, too.

jdawginsc 

Jdawg is a happy enabler! I was hoping someone would build it up.

As I shared in some other place, you are only the second rider of that bicycle (exclusion of me since I rode it around the block to see if I could ride it.)

Happy trails!

PS: Sally Hansen had a shade of nail polish that was a near perfect match...

masi61

Nice job improvising with what parts you had available! Question: are you not going to hook up a front derailleur? I mean you do already have a double crank.

if this thread is about the slowest Cannondale build, I’d like to add my Silk Tour 800 build to this, I’m so busy mulching leaves, working, cooking and trying to exercise in what precious little time I have left that - well, fun vintage builds like this stay conceptual for prolonged periods.



I would have preferred a “medium” frame for a more lively ride with my 5’11” self but this “large is going to have to do. I did spec a used Cannondale 1.56” oversized “FutureShok” 90mm stem so that the reach from the saddle will be about the same as my road bike. Also the drops on the used carbon bars are too short for my liking so I have fitted Control Tech bar extenders to the ends to gain an extra 20mm for when I’m in the drops.

I really was hoping to get this Cannondale Hollowgram crank fitted with KCNC triple gold ano spider ring set onto the Silk Tour. To make it work I need a BSA 30 threaded bottom bracket and the correct spacers to establish the correct chain line and non-binding bearings. So far it is a no-go. Maybe my Cannondale dealer could make this a reality for me, crossing my fingers here.

BTW: The wheels on this should ride pretty sweet. They are tubeless ready HED Belgium Plus rims (28f/32r) laced to WTB Momentum Grease Guard hubs (correct 135 spacing for rear) with an IRD Shimano spec 10 speed 12/25 cassette which would give me all the gears I could possibly want when paired with the 26/36/48 KCNC triple I hope to run.

BTW: the wheels in the photo are the original Mavic/Cannondale heavy touring wheels. I’ll reserve these for some other project. Also, like you I had a stuck bottom bracket. I had to purchase PB Blaster and spray in a generous amount from the non-drive side and let it soak over night then I used this breaker bar and the Shimano tool to finally get the square taper cartridge BB out:



My first attempts were such that the splined lock ring totally did not budge. But that PB Blaster stuff worked when regular WD-40 did not.

pastorbobnlnh 

Both projects are supremo!

I've been trying to find time to rebuild my '93 R600 with 10 speed microShift gear for the past three years. Hopefully my recent retirement will finally enable this to occur--- but not before next summer when I return to NH (where the bike and boxed parts remain for now).

ehcoplex 

I'll be interested to see if you can make the 650b wheels work. My research on the subject indicated a 650b conversion on a Cannondale was a no-go (and on my '97 T900 the chain-stay shape is such that it looks like a wheel smaller than 700c would actually have less clearance width-wise... and then there's the position of the canti posts). The geometry from the 80s to the 90s must have changed (more tour, less sport-tour?)- I can just manage to fit 38c tires and fenders on mine, but it's veeeery tight.

DMC707

I like winter build ups too ! -- Ive got one i just started -- interestingly enough, the donor bike for mine is a Cannondale that i may list the frame cheap when all is said and done.

I think the paint from those era's was very interesting -- I had a blue Criterium model with white and yellow squiggles on the top tube -- the randomness was super cool and made them unique 00 and your twine technique is something to be embraces !

steine13

While we wait for parts to come in, here's what happens when a Phil bottom bracket gets corroded and does not wish to leave the frame.

pastorbobnlnh 

Whoa!

jdawginsc 

I have an extra 93 around if waiting becomes too much...haha.

masi61

Did you get the Phil lock rings out?

Jorenby

So funky -- love it. Nice work getting her in shape to ride!

DMC707

Ugly --- My project bike at the moment had bottom bracket woes as well ---- fixed cup would not budge --- there is no corrosion present either, -- so i thought

"Oh well, -- just gonna have to clean and service with the fixed cup in place" as i dont want to damage the paint further on mine -- then i was threading the adjustable cup back in , it went in halfway then stopped --- I dont have a thread chasing tool that large so off to the shop it went. Thankfully they discovered a burr in there that was slowing things down and averted disaster

ITs Friday and i have no female accompaniment at the moment , so i may get some more work done to it tonight though

thumpism 

Here are the tools for my attack plan when that recalcitrant Phil BB arrives.




I thought you were bending one of the long arm Phil tools, not the little compact "travel" tool. That's pretty impressive.

steine13

This question has been discussed before, of course.. over on the "Show Us Your Vintage Cannondale" thread, there was this post about an ST bike:
https://www.bikeforums.net/21697712-post1166.html

Another thing I've read is that it may differ from bike to bike, since there was a lot of hand-fitting on these. Given how tight the stays are, that may well be true.

Regarding the bottom bracket on the Trek 620: that's good and stuck still.

steine13

Learned Friends:

I had referenced "inbound parts".. today, finally, with two days of shipping delay, I got my 650B touring wheel set form Velomine. At first blush, these seem to be very solidly built, they spin true, and I could not have built them from parts for the price. Being "touring" in nature, the rear hub will need some massaging, but I installed a "38 mm" Panaracer Col de la Vie tire (40-584) on the front wheel and used different skewers front and rear for a test fit. The results are encouraging.

Recall that the Tektro 559 brakes had to have the pads moved all the way up for 700C. For 650B, they have to come all the way down, but then they reach fine, both front and rear. Here is the front wheel, and I'd say there is a little too much headroom at the fork crown. But we're about riding, not looks (right..?) so I say this is OK.






Here is the same wheel 'installed' in place of a proper rear wheel. This is a better fit, if a little tight against the chain stays. Were this a steel frame, I'd be dimpling the stays. I slipped a rear fender around the tire, and it will look fine with a little care to get the fender line right.



As far as the clearance at the chain stays, keep in mind that this is a front wheel with a too-long skewer, so it could move laterally. Best I could measure, there is a space of 3 mm on either side of the tire. Which measures 34 mm wide when pumped up to 50 PSI. In other words, without drastic measures, this is as fat a tire as will fit, even with the smaller wheel size. Which is ironically the largest size that will fit -- with fenders -- on my '95 T400 tourer with 135 mm spacing and cantilever brakes set up for 700c. That has always struck me as a great tire size for all-around riding.

Here is a picture of the tire fit.


With a little work, I should be able to cannibalize the NOS Shimano 600 hub I scored at the co-op a few weeks back and get both wheels installed for commuting. It's supposed to be cold and dry Monday and Tuesday, and that would be a worthwhile exercise.

As far as pedal strike, I should be OK. Using this setup in place of a 27" wheel with 1" tires lowers the bottom bracket by 10 mm. Since I ride 170 mm cranks, that will not be an issue so long as I stay away from extra fat pedals.

cheers -mathias

jdawginsc 

Wow! Love the creativity in this one!

steine13

It looks like there's a bit of a snag. All y'alls probably saw it coming but I sure didn't:
The freehub body from one of the co-op donor hubs does not fit.
Shimano went from ten splines to fifteen because, why not?
So... re-lace the wheel with my 600 hub..? Minor problem, 36 spokes vs. 32.

For giggles, I might re-space the wheel and ride it with a lot of dish to see what it feels like but man....

On the other hand snow today, snow tonight, and yes, Viriginia, there is accumulation -- the longest four-letter word we've got. So there's no hurry.

sigh -mathias

Why can't anything ever be straighforward?

steine13

Alright. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

Seeing as how my carefully pilfered 7sp freehub bodies would do no good, I went ahead and swapped the NDS spacer on the velomine hub with the narrower one of a new 105 hub I bought last summer when on sale -- that one had 130 mm spacing, of course. So now I have another 130 mm wheel.

Then I re-dished the wheel, and since it was only two millimeters -- I try to err on the side of LESS drive side tension, not more -- it actually wasn't a big deal.
If we had decent weather, I could ride to work tomorrow. As it stands, maybe not, cuz I won't get fenders mounted in time.

Still, this is starting to look useful. Bottom bracket height is 25.5 cm, which means take care in corners. Like I pedal through those LOL.

Respectfully submitted,
-mathias

thumpism 

Said it differently many times: nothing is ever simple.

DMC707

Ouch -- seeing a pic of a 1/2" impact in a bike build thread has me cringing

Rooney 

That's promising news regarding the 650b conversion. My friend has a 48cm ST400 which has 27" wheels — it looks ridiculous. I was planning to test a set of 650b wheels I have on their bike. This is making me more confident it'll work!

noglider 

Getting a bike to work is simple if you buy it new and don't change it. But where's the fun in that?

thumpism 

Cringe not, the impact wrench is for a bike take-apart thread.

steine13

First commute on the new wheels. New bike syndrome maybe, but I really like the way these col de la vies ride at 45 lbs. It was minus 2 degrees socialist this morning at seven.


Not a fan of this stem and bar setup. Part of working out the kinks.