chriskmurray

Stuff like that is why I rarely race any more and why I am a big fan of the "no entry fee, no prizes" self supported races like the Tour Divide and Trans Am.

StephenH

That makes perfect sense to me. First off, if you're spending a year of your life cycling 200 miles a day, then $300 is the merest pittance in your expenses. Then just having to wade through the files and paperwork to have some confidence that it's accurate would be an exceedingly time-consuming task, so you'd like to eliminate people like myself that might enter if there's no cost, but have zero chance of winning, either.

On the Ken Webb issue- I suspect Guinness got some reasonably good reason to doubt the achievement, but didn't want to open themselves to a libel claim by going into details, so they just quietly shoved it aside.

I don't know the individual at all- but anybody riding 200 miles a day AND working seems very highly questionable to me. Of course, I can't fathom who in their right mind would go ride miles on a bike so their friend could get a record, either.

I remember hearing the story about a guy that was trying to beat the Strava record on a certain climb and finally figured out the person he was trying to beat was just going up the hill in a car or motorcycle. I'm not sure what's to prevent that happening here.

hamster

This happens every once in a while at Strava (someone forgets to stop the timer on the GPS after a ride, shoves the bike into the trunk of the car, drives home, does the upload and becomes a proud owner of any number of KOMs, many of them far beyond reasonable speed). It's usually not hard to tell that the KOM is spurious.
UMCA requires all GPS uploads for the challenge to include either power, heart rate, or both. That would prevent you from racking up miles in a car (at least without having to commit further fraud by doctoring GPS data files).

unterhausen

strava detects a gps riding in a car and repeated offenders can be banned. They also allow flagging. So what I do is pick out someone who is, say, third on a segment and ride my electric bike a rate just faster than theirs. Drives 'em nuts

dual650c

This response may lead to topic drift - respond/ignore it as you will.

I'm glad you think it's sensible. UCMA may find someone else beside you to give them $300 for no pertinent reason.

I say "no pertinent reason" because it's my understanding that UCMA is a non-profit. Any fees it charges are theoretically directly used to finance the organization's expenses. Record verification in this case actually costs nothing - just a person's (volunteer?) time. Publishing the result costs some minimal amount additional to its current publishing expenses. So the $300 is either going to compensate that person for his/her time or be overkill in terms of publishing the result online/somewhere.

As far as it being time-consuming to wade thru the data, shrug. So what? An intermediately skilled coder/Excel user can write a verification program for the GPS submission data in very little time, I'm sure. [I'd probably be able to do it myself and I'm certainly no expert.] Once developed, the program/process can be used repeatedly - oh, btw, the UCMA says they get to approve what on-bike recording methods/devices are okay ahead of time. UCMA thus will have major control over the verification process and could thereby limit the need for manual/non-automated verification and minimize any costs.

Volunteers in similar organizations are rarely compensated for their time, so why a $300 entry fee just to attempt the record? (I assume nothing will be refunded if the attempt is stopped prior to the year's end. Ex., Day 2 - car accident; end of attempt; no refund. $300 down the tube. Cost to the person attempting being "a pittance" has nothing to do with my point; $300 profit for UCMA.)

Sorry. I just can't find any real justification for a $300 fee just to begin an attempt to break a record. I've never heard of other records requiring a similar "attempt" fee - other than a truly minor fee (under $25) and then only upon submission of the record attempt results. I have heard of this fee explained as an "application/verification" fee, but again, that's post-attempt.

Perhaps I'm uninformed. Then again, to me, $300 isn't "trivial" even in my 6th decade.
YMMV

hamster

They charge $65 for attempts to break other solo records (e.g. 24-hour road record, which currently stands at 521.98 miles). But that money includes the cost of dispatching an official to observe the attempt.

A 365-day record attempt may involve an official being sent out multiple times to do random checks, explaining a higher cost.

BTW, if someone on the West Coast wants a record that is relatively easy-pickings, there is currently NO standing record on north-south crossing of California in any men's categories, and no record on either of the two west-east crossings in men's 18-49 category. (They have a number of west-east recorded attempts in the past, but the route was redefined in 2008 to avoid traffic and there were apparently no attempts since.) Southern west-east crossing is Ventura-Palmdale-Victorville-Twentynine Palms-Parker. Northern west-east crossing is Point Arena to Lake Tahoe. Either one is ~320 miles.

bmike

I won't give a dime to the UMCA (again, I did at one time) - but I'm on the Board of Directors of a national non profit. Our members pay dues, and certain programs cost money.

Yes, the 'non profit' part is so that individuals can't profit from the work of the organization. It doesn't mean that the organization can't charge money for services or events, sell ads in its newsletter, run an online store, etc. etc... so long as the $$ coming in relates to the mission of the organization.

As to the suitability of this $300 fee, I could care less, about as little as I do about someone trying to ride their bike this much for some sort of record.

unterhausen

there are one-day events that cost less than that

StephenH

If you are seriously interested in going for that record, have a year free, have the money for all the supplies and bike upkeep and don't need to work, etc., I would suggest contacting UMCA and see if they'll waive that fee for you. Heck, take up a collection here.

I was thinking RAAM costs something like $3,000, typical long-distance races cost varying amounts, so that $300 doesn't sound like much to me, considering the nature of the event. I'm planning to ride a 200k brevet in late January, and I'll spend more than that riding it. Riding the 75,000 miles or whatever would probably rack up about $5,000 of chains and tires.

dual650c

You misunderstood my comment apparently. I have no interest in such a record. However, I am gobsmacked that UCMA would charge that much for an "attempt fee". That's all.

I may have misread YOUR response to be that you would pay the fee without a second thought were you to make such an attempt.

Hope I've made myself clear now.
(No interest in myself riding like that - it would turn riding into a job.)

LWaB

I don't do Faceache. Any other places that he is letting people know what he is doing?

c.miller64

His web page is Racing Across America For Methodist Childrens Home, but at the moment it's only showing info from his last RAAM.

LWaB

Thanks for that. I'm impressed that several people are tackling the record on multiple continents next year. It harks back to the 1930s when people were simultaneously competing for the record around the globe. I'm looking forward to watching how they are going through the year.

Does anybody know the vaguely rumoured second USAian fellow targeting this record?

c.miller64

William "Ironox" Pruett.

LWaB

Thanks for that.

It is interesting that Steve will be starting his attempt on Jan 1st while Kurt starts a couple of day afterwards. Like having somebody sitting on your wheel for a year then trying to sprint past when the finish line comes into view.

c.miller64

It's going to be a lot of fun to follow, and knowing Kurt, I'm sure he's going to come out of the gate fast and rack up some very big miles in the first month or two.

I'll have a chance to ride along for some of them as he's going to be spending most of Jan and Feb riding here in Florida.

LWaB

No doubt Kurt will take an early lead. Steve has already posted a couple of mileage schedules on his website, taking account of expected conditions.

Sixty Fiver

Godwin lost the ability to walk after he set the record.

CliffordK

$300 for an "attempt" seems cheap enough. Consider it at less than $1 per day for riding.

You could probably do the attempt without UMCA. Get a sponsor like Bicycling magazine to track and verify your mileage.

Anyway, I'd object if they were charging in excess of $3000.

There is a lot of controversy surrounding Ken Webb. Hopefully the new system has adequate biometric monitoring to prevent fraud.

dual650c

CNN article - Cycling's marathon man attempts year-long endurance record
Cycling's marathon man attempts 75,000 miles in a year - CNN.com

Mentions both the Brit and American men starting their attempts.

madmax8

You also have to factor in the weather conditions. Steve set out today in -2, foggy, icy conditions. Not sure how much weather is going to affect the two Americans. I'd also bet the road conditions are far better wherever the Americans cycle, UK roads are very poor, full of potholes.

DXchulo

Abraham's been an interesting follow on Strava so far.

If I had to choose UK vs. US, I would choose the US based purely on its size. Seems like you could get in more variety and you could have decent weather for a whole year. Start off somewhere like Florida, then move on in the spring as the weather improves across the country. I would definitely need a change of scenery from time to time. I live in a beautiful place with great riding and even I get tired of the same old stuff. My maximum mileage per year has only been in the 12,000s, so I can't even imagine what it would be like doing more than 6x as many miles.

Then again, there's no reason he couldn't start off in Spain or something if he wanted to. I'm sure he has his own reasons for staying in the UK.

hamster

Eek. Not fun, not fun at all. But his first three rides back up my point. His hilliest ride yet was 36'/mile with overall pace just under 15 hours per 200 miles (13.6 mph including stops). Unless he picks up the pace when the weather improves or he finds even flatter routes, it may be tight.

The Arkansas guy mentioned in the CNN article is arguably going to have it even worse. In winter, Arkansas is as cold as central England, but it is considerably wetter. In summer, England is mild, Arkansas gets quite nasty (hot and humid, average July high +34 C, average low +23 C, average monthly precipitation 83 mm vs. London's 44 mm). If I were him, I'd ride nights and sleep through midday all summer.


Reasons are probably mainly logistics. It's a big enough obstacle that you can't work for a year. To do what you describe, you need to have someone move your stuff from place to place for you, rent apartments / hotel rooms in different places, etc.

c.miller64

Kurt will be starting in Florida, not Arkansas.

LWaB

Have a look at Steve's schedules on his website, drawn from both Tommy's ride and from Steve's experience of riding 40,500km of 200+km brevets in the 2007 season. Steve expects to speed up as conditions improve and to slow down when they deteriorate. Kurt's published schedule mirrors Steve's.

It wouldn't be surprising if Kurt went fast from the ***. So did a couple of competitors during Tommy's record. They got beaten.