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How much air should my tube lose?

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How much air should my tube lose?

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Old 10-12-23, 09:16 PM
  #26  
choddo
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Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody
I gave the units used, not how much of each. The volume doesn't enter in to the rate of permeation, just the area and thickness, though the pressure loss that represents depends on volume.


If that were true I could just not-patch a punctured tube, rotate the tire around a bit, then inflate it. Air presses up against the tube pretty tightly but not so tightly that air molecules can't move between them.
cm^3 might even cancel out once divided by area and thickness so ok.

You'd have to get the tube to full pressure instantly for your example to be a test of this hypothesis. Air will always escape easily from an uninflated tube inside a tyre. Also it only reduces the rate, doesn’t stop it. How often do you want to re-inflate it?

Last edited by choddo; 10-13-23 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 10-13-23, 02:52 PM
  #27  
Arthur Peabody
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Originally Posted by choddo
You'd have to get the tube to full pressure instantly for your example to be a test of this hypothesis. Air will always escape easily from an uninflated tube inside a tyre.
I have often inflated tubes with punctures to 100 psi. They lose all that pressure in a few hours, not 40 days, as they would through permation through the tube alone.
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Old 10-13-23, 03:00 PM
  #28  
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maybe you could soak the tube in a tubeless sealant bath to reduce the time to which it losses air?
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Old 10-13-23, 03:17 PM
  #29  
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I'm sorry to seem like an adzhole here, but, what is the point of this thread???

The OP offers a calculation whose results match his actual experience, then invites debate. About what?

He mentions that he might be wrong and wants to learn. But he argues with every response.

Later he mentions getting frequent punctures, but that has no relevance to his original question.

Please OP, spare us the runaround, what EXACTLY are you trying to figure out?

Last edited by FBinNY; 10-13-23 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 10-13-23, 05:25 PM
  #30  
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Actually, forget I said anything.

Last edited by choddo; 10-13-23 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 10-14-23, 12:29 PM
  #31  
Arthur Peabody
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
what is the point of this thread???
The OP offers a calculation whose results match his actual experience, then invites debate. About what?
Whether I have made any mistakes. Someone else could have made the same calculation I did, figured out how s/he had made an error. Rarely does experience match theoretical calculations. I know my tubes have non-uniform thickness because they bulge differentially when I inflate them to search for leaks. Because thickness is in the denominator, an average doesn't capture experience. Responders had a wide variety of air loss, which was useful.

Originally Posted by FBinNY
He mentions that he might be wrong and wants to learn. But he argues with every response.
It's a forum: a place for argument. Have you not read Plato? Some responses were so different from my experience I responded with argument. Can you not inflate a tube with a small puncture to 100 psi (inside a mounted tire, of course) and have it lose air much faster than permeation? Do tubes seal to tires when inflated, block movement of air out of the tube other than permeating the tire?

Originally Posted by FBinNY
Later he mentions getting frequent punctures, but that has no relevance to his original question.
It related to some responses.

Originally Posted by FBinNY
Please OP, spare us the runaround, what EXACTLY are you trying to figure out?
Nothing. I asked in case someone had made a similar calculation.

Originally Posted by choddo
Actually, forget I said anything.
You have to think of that first.

Originally Posted by Troul
maybe you could soak the tube in a tubeless sealant bath to reduce the time to which it losses air?
I wasn't asking how to reduce air loss, doubt this would work.
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Old 10-14-23, 01:15 PM
  #32  
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I didn’t mean forget I said anything at all. It wasn’t some sort of admission I was wrong so your “should have thought of that first” is not the first time you’ve misinterpreted what anyone outside your own head is saying.

I meant anything which I had written in that last post, because I decided you aren’t willing to listen so I’m not going to waste any more of my time or yours so edited it out.
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Old 10-14-23, 10:14 PM
  #33  
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i doubt your doubts that in doubt it could be an experiment.
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Old 10-21-23, 01:13 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody
I calculated the permeability of my tubes to air, and the numbers seem high. Do you see something wrong with my calculation? I measure my 700x28 tube to have a radius of 1 cm, a thickness of 1 mm, a toroidal radius 33 cm, thus has an area of about 1200 cm^2, a volume of about 600 cm^3. Air is permeable to butyl rubber at 2×10^-9 in units of cm, atmospheres, and seconds. (I rounded all these numbers.) I inflate my tires to 7 atmospheres. From this I calculate that it should lose about 2.5 psi/day, 18/week, which seems like a lot - though it is my experience.
Are you the tight headset guy?
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Old 03-26-24, 09:59 PM
  #35  
Arthur Peabody
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Originally Posted by ign1te
Are you the tight headset guy?
No.
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