tremolo1965

My 1978 De Rosa has its original Columbus tubing decal on the seat tube, presumably a mix of SL / SP tubes - nothing unusual there.
When I re-packed the headset bearings a couple years ago, I noticed a lack of spirals inside the steerer tube. I looked carefully, but they just aren't there.

I've owned this bike for almost 12 years, but I was looking at the thin, tattered chrome on the fork blades while waxing them (I do this to protect the metal), and noticed something unusual: T hrough the thin chrome I can easily make out most of the Reynolds stamp, along with a vestigial '2' which I believe pertains to a tubing dimension. The markings are visible on both fork blades. I am attaching photos of my bike (it's the white one), and a photo I sourced from Speedcycles.ch of a 1977 fully chromed De Rosa which just happens to have a stamped '2' in the same font. I've also noticed other frames on the web that have the same oval profile, as well as the 1977 Strada Super Record in Andrea Bonfanti's De Rosa book which has the same profile (not stamps visible through the paint.

I am also aware of at least one other De Rosa which came from the same shop in Florence (Poggiali) which appears to have Reynolds fork blades - many of the frames sold at this shop were retired ex-Filotex frames, as Roberto Poggiali was Francesco Moser's gregario (domestique), which had been owned by Robert Freeman.







I'm sharing because this is an example of the level of customization that De Rosa offered a the 1970s came to a close, a period during which his shop's framebuilding was at its peak, as evidenced in particular by the brazing detail and fine finishing of the Nervex Ref. 32 pressed lugs.

I'm especially curious why Reynolds forks would be specified, but assume it was an extension of De Rosa's practice to assign individually matching forks tubed to each frame, something that may or may not have continued into the 1980s, but I suspect did not.

Sharing and soliciting any knowledge or thoughtful speculations!

Chris

merziac

@tremolo1965

No expert, especially on DeRosa's, just standard reverence and appreciation.

I think we need some good full on pics as well, seems like there could be many reasons for this even though a bit odd, we never really know what went on in the backroom, closet, shop, bar or at the order desk.

Paging @Robvolz

Fredo76

Maybe there was a temporary shortage. Maybe they left the Reynolds stamp visible so as not to be accused of fakery. Maybe they were in a hurry.

Maybe, maybe, maybe...

repechage

The metal reveals.
no use asking Ugo, but was a thing for a while obviously.

ask Andrea?

P!N20

corsaclassic

tremolo1965

Actually, I have. I imagine he’s got a few things on his plate, but he indicated he would follow up with Christiano, who I believe may have raced during this time period, and on a very similar frame. It’ll be interesting to learn more.

tremolo1965

The chrome on the fork blades wasn’t done very well, in sharp contrast to the overall quality of construction.

tremolo1965

Hi Merziac,

I’ve posted a few photos lately, don’t want to over-do it, but here are a couple more.






It’s my summer bike, and will be dormant until next Spring.

tremolo1965

Hi Merziac,

I’ve posted a few photos lately, don’t want to over-do it, but here are a couple more.






It’s my summer bike, and will be dormant until next Spring.

repechage

Good the Ugo terminated the seatlug slot with a round cul-de-sac.

in the 70’s many of the frames did not receive that detail. “Move ‘em Out!”

tremolo1965

Yet the production output was so low as compared with the other constructors (i.e. Colnago, even Masi). Still, some were rushed, turned around quickly as Ugo’s bikes were most prized in competition and he could be troubles make them with little lead time (based on a few interviews he gave).

Fortunately, this frame also has the seatlug ears filled with brass, another step frequently skipped to furnish frames in a hurry (or save time and money).

Trakhak

Most people here know more about this than I do, but I seem to remember that Reynolds fork blades (usually) had a flatter profile than "Continental" fork blades (i.e., Columbus). Maybe the fork crown was designed for use with the former, or, as suggested earlier, it was a custom order, and the customer specified blades with the flatter profile.

tremolo1965

Yes, I think you’re referring to the ‘Imperial Oval’ vs the ‘Continental Oval’. I don’t know how much the ride would be affected, but one could speculate based on the geometry, but yeah I don’t know. Factually at this point all I know is that a different material was selected..a bit of a mystery that makes the bike even more interesting to me.

repechage

the difference in blade profiles are in the very strong opinion arena of Perception. One believes what ya want.
I think a stronger case can be made for the crown structure and overall blade wall thickness.
‘the elements get all recombined, very hard to isolate if they can be.

while the Columbus or Continental profile had been around for a long time, it was 1974, and really apparent in 1975 that Reynolds had a blade to match the Columbus shape.
‘first seen in the shop I worked for on some Raleigh Team pro frames and some, not all Falcon built Eddy Merckx licensed bikes, too bad Falcon kept their geometry, in the smaller sizes the top tubes were way too long, blame Ernie Clements.

tremolo1965

Repechage

I always appreciate your comments, the windows into the your experience..

I agree there are so numerous elements, very dynamic environment occurring as we roll along, and it would be quite a calculus to sort out the effects of the crown brazing, internal external, the effective fork blade which is in play fore and aft, much less side by side forces.

Trial and error, results, perception.

merziac

No worries, as we know DeRosa's are on the short list that can't have too many pics, so many little details that are difficult to suss out even with volumes of info out there.

You mean this doesn't get ridden on any sharp, cold, crisp, dry, screamin ass blue sky winter days.

That is a cryin shame if so, I live for the days riding that could be just as amazing on the mountain, I used to ski and I apply the same mindset to bike rides, prep, gear and kit, get it right and it is amazing. I have setups for down in the 20's.

Get it right and there's nothing better.

tremolo1965

Merziac,

I live in the Pacific Northwest, so it’s wet most days during winter. You’re correct, though..it isn’t right to leave her dormant for such long stretches. Hmmm.

merziac

I know, me too in Portland, it rains a lot as we know but I make a big effort to get out no matter what when the sun shines to cancel out some of the wet, crappy days.

For me, wool is the key, I have a lot of it and several stellar pieces, socks, good thin warm hats, and shirts I layer with tee shirts, performance flannels and rain gear for the wet days.

masispecial

It would be helpful to know the dimensions of the fork blade oval just below the crown.

I don’t think this is customisation, more likely it’s a simple commercial decision (maybe Columbus was out of stock, or on strike) or maybe Ugo just preferred the Reynolds fork parts.

repechage

will have to account for the probable inside reinforcements.

bulgie 

It's funny, but Reynolds actually called the older, skinnier oval the Continental, opposite to modern jargon. They never (to my knowledge) used the term Imperial for any oval. I don't know who came up with that term, but I think probably American bikies. I am curious BTW, in case anyone knows the answer to that -- who first used the term Imperial oval.

When they came out with the fatter oval ('75-ish?), close enough to Columbus that they fit in the same crowns, they called it "New Continental Oval". In the frameshop we called 'em NCO.




Hard to be 100% sure from the photos but I'm mostly sure the blades on OP's are NCO, in the same crown they used for Columbus.

In terms of the ride quality, they'll be close to identical to Columbus SP. They're heavier wall than SL, but probably not enough to notice a difference, except maybe a cumulative build-up of fatigue on a long bumpy ride, from less attenuation of the potholes. But you'd never know that was from your forkblades, right? You're maybe a little more beat-up at the end of a ride, but how would you ever know that was from your forkblades? That's why in my framebuilding practice, I always pursued any possible advantage whether or not it was possible for the rider to notice it. Those little improvements (or detriments) that will never be noticed do in fact add up in a real way sometimes.

Mark B

repechage

But the skinny blades had better aero….

tremolo1965

I took out the calipers, and here are the measurements:‘Length’ = 28.5 mm (Top, adjacent to crown -above taper).

‘Longitudinal’ 16.5mm (measured at end of reinforcement tang - not tapered in this dimension either at this point, and also two inches lower, still no taper).

This obviously points to the earlier CO profile, with its inherently lower aerodynamic coefficient…..

This also means the crown had to have been fabricated to a different specification.

This doesn’t point to a material shortage of Columbus forks, or a last minute custom order.

Perhaps Ugo purchase a minimum allowed set of crowns, as well as the 531 fork blades to allow for some experimentation, or for heavier riders, cobbles.., who knows without someone close to him, or familiar with the practice chiming in.

Thankfully, the ride on this bike is comfortable and reassuringly stable, especially during fast rides and descents. I haven’t exactly been doing centuries.. my local rides are usually about 25 miles.