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Rich then and now.

Old 04-08-22, 06:01 PM
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DiabloScott
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Rich then and now.

Would you rather have lived 100 years ago and be in the top 1% of people financially?
Or the 50% net worth category now?

Not a poll, just discuss.
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Old 04-08-22, 06:28 PM
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If we're being honest, the majority of us here that ride nice bicycles for fun or to collect them are already probably within the top 50% of wealth globally. Mean wealth in the US is $505,000, which means folks with an income and equity in some assets or even a 401K will be close to that. What was interesting is that the median wealth was only $79,270.

Therefore the only logical answer is time travel. To be in the top 1% 100 years ago is a great way to ensure that your kids and grandkids have the capital to continue to reach those rarefied peaks of wealth.
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Old 04-08-22, 06:40 PM
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The 50% depends on how you're defining it. The top 1% is the top, no matter how you slice it. And 100 years isn't that long ago. I'd definitely prefer to be on top.

If the time frame was longer, the relative benefits of technology would become more of a factor.
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Old 04-08-22, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Unca_Sam View Post
Therefore the only logical answer is time travel.
A flux capacitor in a Garmin?
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Old 04-08-22, 07:00 PM
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I can poop indoors, in a warm room. I have it better than so many kings of old.
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Old 04-08-22, 11:58 PM
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There are lots of things more important than money and that money can’t buy….family and friendships, which when created are one of the deepest sources of happiness, authentic purpose and inner peace in what you do no matter what that is, helping others which is a wonderful source of satisfaction and compassion too, giving your body a healthy lifestyle and even more important expressing our feelings/thoughts in an educated and positive way!!!
…..that’s how my parents raised me and it’s working out well for me no matter the money I have….and that’s how I’m raising our daughter!!!
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Old 04-09-22, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I can poop indoors, in a warm room. I have it better than so many kings of old.
+1. And you (hopefully) won’t lose all your money in a big Wall St. collapse and jump from your office window.

And, of course, no Bikeforums back then.
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Old 04-09-22, 08:46 AM
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50 years ago my dad'd income was in the upper middle class, he also had 8 children to support. He bought a used house well below what he was approved for, drove 10 year old used cars, mom stayed at home and sewed many of our clothes and cooked everything from scratch. All of my clothes through 4th grade were hand-me-downs. Never had a family vacation that left the backyard, before high school my brothers and I went to exactly one movie at the theater, it was The Gnome Mobile. Our family lived a frugal lifestyle that allowed my dad to save for retirement.

I have raised my family in the same fashion reached the goal for financial retirement at age 58, however I still work full time, but in a fun job that does not haunt me at night. My kids are successful and responsible with their finances in the same was they saw my wife and I do it. They will be financially able to retire by age 50 with ease. It does not matter being in the 1% or 50%, it is a choice of living below your means and planning for the future.

With all that being said, I sure would like to go back and try living in the horse and buggy days. I am sure it was difficult in comparison to today, however it was also much different living than today.
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Old 04-09-22, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post

If the time frame was longer, the relative benefits of technology would become more of a factor.
I was thinking the technology factor when I proposed this - information, medicine, plumbing, travel, entertainment, etc.
Your average middle class citizen today has a LOT of comforts and conveniences that are pretty nice, even if they have to plug along at a menial job to afford them.
Your average 1 percenter 100 years ago had a lot of influence and superiority, but he was still pooping in a bucket and took 3 weeks to get to Europe for a vacation; and would be susceptible to diseases that are easily prevented today - syphilis, diphtheria, influenza, and tuberculosis.
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Old 04-09-22, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
A flux capacitor in a Garmin?
Oh sure, but can you get it to 88 miles an hour... and do you happen to have any plutonium laying around? Oh and if you go back 100 years or so... be sure to bring both gasoline and plutonium with you.
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Old 04-09-22, 11:16 AM
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I agree a lot with ThermionicScott in this. I think many of us in the 'developed' nations take a lot of the amenities we are accustomed to for granted. Electricity. Reliable heating and cooling. Medicine. Convenience foods. Reliable vehicles and roads. Environmental and Safety regulations....

Now, admittedly, if one were to be among that 1% much of the above wouldn't apply.

I wouldn't have any issue with living at my current income with lower inflation (and adjusted for said over time) without having to have concern for profession. IE, being 'rich' at a level that I didn't have to work a career with the main concern being income. There are things I would much rather do for a living, but not sure how I could make those as profitable as what I actually do.
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Old 04-10-22, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I can poop indoors, in a warm room. I have it better than so many kings of old.
Louis XIV had an indoor toilet and a lackey to wipe his ass.
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Old 04-10-22, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
Louis XIV had an indoor toilet and a lackey to wipe his ass.
I bet that would be nice, after the initial strangeness!
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
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Old 04-11-22, 12:59 AM
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As Unca_Sam said, we're already relatively well off by world standards.

The real challenge to a hypothetical time travel scenario is doing something useful with the knowledge and opportunity. Knowing what we know now, and being transplanted to an earlier century, could we put that to good use?

I suspect not.
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Old 04-11-22, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
As Unca_Sam said, we're already relatively well off by world standards.

The real challenge to a hypothetical time travel scenario is doing something useful with the knowledge and opportunity. Knowing what we know now, and being transplanted to an earlier century, could we put that to good use?

I suspect not.
What if we would be disadvantaged by our lack of knowledge?
How few of us are masons, farriers, thatchers, farmers, coopers, etc?

What if we also would be disadvantaged by knowing things that just aren’t so?
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Old 04-11-22, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I bet that would be nice, after the initial strangeness!
There are some things I want done for me. Butt wiping is not on the list.
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Old 04-11-22, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I can poop indoors, in a warm room. I have it better than so many kings of old.
This is my first though too. Way too often I wonder about having to crap & wipe daily in a world without plumbing or TP.

I DEFINITELY choose 50% today over 1% 100 years ago.

Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
There are lots of things more important than money and that money can’t buy….family and friendships, which when created are one of the deepest sources of happiness, authentic purpose and inner peace in what you do no matter what that is, helping others which is a wonderful source of satisfaction and compassion too, giving your body a healthy lifestyle and even more important expressing our feelings/thoughts in an educated and positive way!!!
…..that’s how my parents raised me and it’s working out well for me no matter the money I have….and that’s how I’m raising our daughter!!!
HOWEVER, these are very valid points. A very interesting intellectual exercise is to go read the Unabomber Manifesto, (or one of Ted Kaczinski's favorite books, The Technological Society), and wrap your mind around what he perceived as the detriments to humanity posed by technology. A lot of the stuff he wrote was not wrong, he just jumped to evilly murderous conclusions about the best course of action.
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Old 04-11-22, 12:43 PM
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I wouldn't have been able to buy a new hip, but if I was wealthy I would have never had worn it working. Anyway, I would have missed the seventies, lol.
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Old 04-11-22, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
This is my first though too. Way too often I wonder about having to crap & wipe daily in a world without plumbing or TP.
TP was available in the western world more than 100 years ago.

Everything you wanted to know about the history of cleaning your butt:

https://www.history.com/.amp/news/to...ent-rome-china
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Old 04-11-22, 03:11 PM
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awesome link, thanks!

The most famous example of ancient ‘toilet paper’ comes from the Roman world [during the first century A.D.] and Seneca's story about the gladiator who killed himself by going into a toilet and shoving the communal sponge on a stick down his throat


I'd rather die!
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Old 04-11-22, 07:08 PM
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Technology and comfort are the first things that came to mind for me.

The first white people in Seattle were the Denny Party, who spilt up on their way. The second half of the group landed at Alki and were greeted "I wish you hadn't come." The cold and wet were miserable.

It hasn't even been a hundred years since Eddie Bauer invented the down jacket. Also a near death experience.
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Old 04-11-22, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
awesome link, thanks!





I'd rather die!
We’re talking only 100 years back. 1922.
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Old 04-11-22, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
I was thinking the technology factor when I proposed this - information, medicine, plumbing, travel, entertainment, etc.
Your average middle class citizen today has a LOT of comforts and conveniences that are pretty nice, even if they have to plug along at a menial job to afford them.
Your average 1 percenter 100 years ago had a lot of influence and superiority, but he was still pooping in a bucket and took 3 weeks to get to Europe for a vacation; and would be susceptible to diseases that are easily prevented today - syphilis, diphtheria, influenza, and tuberculosis.
100 years wasn't that far back. They certainly had indoor plumbing and the mansions of the day arguably provided a style of luxury unmatched today. The lifestyle was very different then, so the 3 week voyage to Europe didn't seem like the waste of time we'd consider it today. There's a glamour to the lives of the wealthy in that period that in some ways seems more appealing to me than the lives of the rich today.

But the clothing wouldn't suit my tastes at all.
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Old 04-11-22, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I studied the original French version of Ellul’s book in a philosophy of technology class in my last lycée year. I preferred Michel Foucault's in-depth focus on the identity dilemmas and the proper understanding of the order of things we are faced with in an overly technological world rather than Ellul’s view that we’ll have the elimination of natural environment and as technique takes over the individual we become mere tools for our tools.
eta...i'm not interested in Kaczinski's writings
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Old 04-12-22, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz View Post
What if we would be disadvantaged by our lack of knowledge?
How few of us are masons, farriers, thatchers, farmers, coopers, etc?

What if we also would be disadvantaged by knowing things that just aren’t so?
I wasn't thinking of anything so mundane as mastering an obsolete trade or craft.

In my hypothetical example -- traveling back a century while retaining knowledge of our recent past and present -- would we use that knowledge to, for example, invest in the burgeoning media, notably radio and Hollywood? Try to prevent WWII, or let it run its course and join the elite power brokers in profiting from a world war?

I suspect many people who begin a one-way ticket time travel journey with good intentions will find themselves siding with profiting from their knowledge. Perhaps some would tell themselves they'll use those gains to make good in other ways.

Nothing new there. It's a familiar Hollywood trope. One which I neglected to invest in during my time travel journey. Hence my impoverished bitterness.
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