agent pombero

They're eliminating them in Portland with the help of the public. What about where you live, do you see drains like this? Have you ever crashed by riding over one?

https://www.oregonlive.com/cycling/in..._grates_s.html

FBinNY 

They're reducing the numbers over time in many Metro New York area.

I've test ridden many of the types of grates still in use and they're better than they look, even with my tubular tire road bike. OTOH many could still trap a small, narrow wheel like those on some high end folding bikes.

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sotramk

Yes! It's a big peeve of mine where I live.
We have some grates that run parallel to the curb and others that run perpendicular. No particular rhyme or reason as to their occurrence on any given street. They are a major cause of bike vs vehicle angst on busy roads here.

prathmann

AFAIK, they've been eliminated locally. However, we had a case a number of years ago where a grate with the bars perpendicular to the travel direction was inadvertently installed incorrectly after some maintenance work which left a big gap at the left edge of the grate. A cyclist had his wheel fall into this gap and ended up paralyzed. The grates were initially replaced with a design that eliminated that type of incorrect installation and white lines were painted guiding cyclists away from the grates on that road. A couple years later they redid the drainage system on that road entirely and the drains are now located under the curbing and away from any cyclist's wheels.

Chris516

You actually reminded me of a storm drain I meant to call about last week.

I avoid riding over storm drains, among other things.

Looigi

Lot's of slotted grates around here. They're square so the grates can be lifted and set back into the the frames with the slots parallel or perpendicular to the direction of travel. Seems little thought is given to it because they're about 50:50, which is what you'd expect by pure chance. I called the local road department on a series of them on a main thoroughfare a frequently ride and they had me call the state since it was a state road. They did come out and rotate them perpendicular to travel. Every year a contract service opens the grates, pumps out the sumps and then replaces them in random orientations.

I-Like-To-Bike

Not any more; when I 've seen them in the past I rode around them.

In fact, can't remember ever crashing into a stationary object. Maybe because its not that hard to look far enough ahead to avoid such "crashes", even if temporarily distracted by listening to music, drinking a beverage, adjusting my clothing, or temporarily looking elsewhere.

Chris516

On my ride today, I found the storm drain I was thinking about this morning. I will be calling about it, tomorrow.

Metal Man

I think K'Tesh has the right idea in getting action on these matters. From what he's posted he takes pictures and emails it to the department in charge of the problem, then CC's it to all the local politicians, news papers, lawyers and anyone else who may have a interest in getting the problem fixed. I'm sure it helps to get the ball rolling when they notice who else got the same email.

spinbackle

+1 to what ILTB said.

ironwood

There used to be a lot around here,Boston suburbs, but most of them have been replaced. However, the potholes are getting worse. Cyclists have died from running over, or into one.

dougmc

I haven't seen any in Austin like that in a long time. The worst I recall in Austin was this which wasn't on a road but instead along the entrance to a convenience store. I did contact the store manager about it and they said they'd look into it, but last I looked nothing had change.

I did see this one in San Antonio, however -- and somebody had just been snagged by it. (Fortunately they were going slow so they weren't hurt.)

enigmaT120

No storm drains where I live. Just mud puddles or potholes. No problem.

Chris516

I went into the city's town hall, and reported the drain I had been referring to. While the grate is of a criss-cross design on the top. The road surface around it has eroded. By the grate protruding above the level of the road. Some unsuspecting cyclist could try to ride across it, resulting in a crash.

noglider 

I made this page to document nine such grates in a stretch of less than a mile. Can you believe it? I submitted it to the state, since they own this road (124 in NJ). No response. Harrumph.

As you view each picture on my page, there is location data for the picture. I made it so easy for them. Silly of me to think they would care.

agent pombero

Well, when a cyclist crashes on a killer drain, are they able to sue the city for medical expenses, lost work, etc?

noglider 

Probably not unless the city has been notified of the hazard ahead of time.

I-Like-To-Bike

Sure the cyclist can try and sue. Anybody can try to sue anybody.

Probably no more likely to collect than if the cyclist crashed into a killer tree. Unless/maybe if the city had been notified in writing previously about a hazardous condition.

I-Like-To-Bike

Any URLs or references to the pothole induced fatalities?

ironwood

I don't have he references, but one case was in the fall about two years ago. The rider was I think from Newton and may have been in Belmont when it happened. Maybe the Boston Globe has it somewhere.

agent pombero

Tried searching for successful cases where an injured cyclist successfully sued the city for a killer drain. Came up with nothing.

spivonious

I'm with ILTB. It's extremely easy to avoid sewer grates.

dougmc

I don't know about the laws *there*, but often the government is protected from such lawsuits by the law.

Often there's some situations that still permit such a lawsuit to proceed (perhaps *gross* negligence or something along those lines) but they tend to be written very narrowly so they're difficult to apply.

And often even if the government officials do take responsibility for what happened and want to pay the damages they may find that the law explicitly prohibits it except under some specific circumstances (which may involve being successfully sued [see above].)

And even if that's not the case, they may still have problems getting approval as such payments are often labelled as "wasteful government spending" or other politically unfavorable things.

You're probably better off harassing the government to fix these issues, moving up the chain of command if lower levels don't work. That also helps the case of anybody who is ultimately injured by them and does try to sue -- if there's a large paper trail of people bringing these problems to their attention it may help get failure to resolve the issue marked as "willfull" or "negligent", which may be what makes the difference.

noglider 

I disagree. Sometimes the lane isn't wide enough for a motor vehicle and a cyclist at that point, and the motor vehicle could be approaching from behind. I realize you can argue that you can start moving around it before the MV is close behind, but sometimes things don't happen under ideal conditions. I once came upon one while a bus was bearing down on me at a narrow point in the road. I hit an ice patch right before the drain. My rear end started fishtailing, and I thought for sure I would be crushed by the bus. I'm not sure how I survived, and I didn't even fall. Scary.

prathmann

The second note here:
https://comments.gmane.org/gmane.cult...ycle.ebbc/5507
mentions the $9.5M settlement reached in the case I mentioned in post #4 above.

And a friend of mine had reported a particularly hazardous drain in Las Vegas. Later he read about a cyclist who crashed at that location. He sent the cyclist a copy of the letter he had previously sent to the city. Both the cyclist and his lawyer were apparently very happy to get his letter.