What happens if I don't change the oil in my IGH?
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The problem is that the axle extends so far below the gear cluster that a whole bunch of excess oil is required to submerge the gears.
I made a container that cuts way down on the amount of oil needed. See the attached images. A plastic ice cream container has a hole drilled in the bottom to allow the axle to pass through. Then a syringe barrel large enough for the axle is attached with epoxy (I used dental acrylic). Then a "stand" is needed because the container won't balance on the tip of the syringe. The amount of oil shown in the second image is enough to completely submerge the gears.
This syringe, with a small screw in the tip, provides room for the axle.
This is the amount of oil needed to fully submerge a Nexus-8 hub.
A perfect combination for supporting the oil bath!
As Dan pointed out, however, this is not necessary to change the oil in the Alfine-11. A drain plug is removed, and the oil is aspirated out with a syringe and a short tube that screws into the hub. The same syringe, or another one if you want to get fancy, is used to inject the replacement oil. The replacement of the drain plug completes the process. The wheel never leaves the bike.
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The first oil change on this hub contained a lot of metallic bits; it had a sort of "shimmer" to it. With subsequent oil changes, the metallic bits have been markedly less visible. Of the hub's capacity (25ml), a few ml will leak out between oil changes, but simply adding oil does not flush out these metallic bits.
FWIW, my hub has 9,000 miles on it and it continues to perform flawlessly.
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I don’t know how big a batch is required for a custom oil blend. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was something like repackaged tellus32. I like synthetic ATF for a lot of general lube type things. I see the other perspective to use the correct stuff because the quantity is small and the manufacturer specified it.
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You seem really confused.
The purpose of lubricating an IGH is to lubricate the internals parts to minimize wear. ATF is meant to cool and lubricate parts that are much more stressed than an IGH, but also to completely submerge the gearing to prevent corrosion. An IGH primarily needs a lubrication that's not going to evaporate and leave a sticky varnish behind, and to provide a measure of corrosion protection for the parts. RJ the bike guy recommends Phil Wood oil to rebuild a 3 speed, because it'll stay where you put it. To use the oil port, Sturmey archer recommended a 5W weight light machine oil, and just a drop weekly in regular use to help flush metal filings from the contact points, and lubricate the bearings.
Overlubrication will wash the grease (if you used grease) from the bearings, and provide a sticky protective film to the hub shell, and just about every everywhere the hub drips.
The purpose of lubricating an IGH is to lubricate the internals parts to minimize wear. ATF is meant to cool and lubricate parts that are much more stressed than an IGH, but also to completely submerge the gearing to prevent corrosion. An IGH primarily needs a lubrication that's not going to evaporate and leave a sticky varnish behind, and to provide a measure of corrosion protection for the parts. RJ the bike guy recommends Phil Wood oil to rebuild a 3 speed, because it'll stay where you put it. To use the oil port, Sturmey archer recommended a 5W weight light machine oil, and just a drop weekly in regular use to help flush metal filings from the contact points, and lubricate the bearings.
Overlubrication will wash the grease (if you used grease) from the bearings, and provide a sticky protective film to the hub shell, and just about every everywhere the hub drips.
#34
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You seem really confused.
The purpose of lubricating an IGH is to lubricate the internals parts to minimize wear. ATF is meant to cool and lubricate parts that are much more stressed than an IGH, but also to completely submerge the gearing to prevent corrosion. An IGH primarily needs a lubrication that's not going to evaporate and leave a sticky varnish behind, and to provide a measure of corrosion protection for the parts. RJ the bike guy recommends Phil Wood oil to rebuild a 3 speed, because it'll stay where you put it. To use the oil port, Sturmey archer recommended a 5W weight light machine oil, and just a drop weekly in regular use to help flush metal filings from the contact points, and lubricate the bearings.
Overlubrication will wash the grease (if you used grease) from the bearings, and provide a sticky protective film to the hub shell, and just about every everywhere the hub drips.
The purpose of lubricating an IGH is to lubricate the internals parts to minimize wear. ATF is meant to cool and lubricate parts that are much more stressed than an IGH, but also to completely submerge the gearing to prevent corrosion. An IGH primarily needs a lubrication that's not going to evaporate and leave a sticky varnish behind, and to provide a measure of corrosion protection for the parts. RJ the bike guy recommends Phil Wood oil to rebuild a 3 speed, because it'll stay where you put it. To use the oil port, Sturmey archer recommended a 5W weight light machine oil, and just a drop weekly in regular use to help flush metal filings from the contact points, and lubricate the bearings.
Overlubrication will wash the grease (if you used grease) from the bearings, and provide a sticky protective film to the hub shell, and just about every everywhere the hub drips.
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Beyond that is the choice between something guaranteed to work but is more expensive and something cheaper that may work and may even work well, but will void the warranty
IMHO people worry way to much about the cost of designed for bike lubricants.... (chain, grease, igh) the cost is really nothing unless you have a lot of bikes (or work in a co op or similar who can buy in bulk often)
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IGH Hubs are significantly more serviceable than freewheels.
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To use the oil port, Sturmey-Archer...
...recommended a 5W weight...
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Stay where you put it? Try NLGI #00 semifluid grease - like Sturmey-Archer has used at the factory in all their gear hubs since 1984.
Fun fact: S-A discontinued the oil port in 1984.
Uh, make that 20 weight (in every example of old Sturmey factory literature I've ever seen. Educate me and post otherwise.)
Fun fact: S-A discontinued the oil port in 1984.
Uh, make that 20 weight (in every example of old Sturmey factory literature I've ever seen. Educate me and post otherwise.)
Why would you buy a SA 3 speed hub or the bike equipped with one made after 1984?
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#40
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it is simple: maintain the IGH or it will die at a point much sooner than it should.
Beyond that is the choice between something guaranteed to work but is more expensive and something cheaper that may work and may even work well, but will void the warranty
IMHO people worry way to much about the cost of designed for bike lubricants.... (chain, grease, igh) the cost is really nothing unless you have a lot of bikes (or work in a co op or similar who can buy in bulk often)
Beyond that is the choice between something guaranteed to work but is more expensive and something cheaper that may work and may even work well, but will void the warranty
IMHO people worry way to much about the cost of designed for bike lubricants.... (chain, grease, igh) the cost is really nothing unless you have a lot of bikes (or work in a co op or similar who can buy in bulk often)
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#42
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I bought THIS oil change kit, which oddly enough came from Estonia. There's enough oil there for one oil change (50 ml... half for flushing and half for the "fill"), but most importantly it includes the syringe with the tube and fittings that attach to the hub. These don't have to be replaced! So a quart of good synthetic gear oil (I use THIS oil) costs another $20 (compare that to the "official" SHIMANO OIL!) and you have enough for 20 oil changes... that's over 16,000 miles! You can be even more frugal... I place a plastic container containing the drained oil and "flush" oil inside a large permanent magnet (from an electric lawnmower). The metal fragments are drawn to the periphery, leaving the oil in the center free of ferro-magnetic particles. I draw this oil out with a syringe and use it as "flush" oil. This almost doubles the number of oil changes I'll get out of my quart/liter of Royal Purple. Probably enough to last me the rest of my life!
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NLGI 2 at $10 a pound. Thanks. I try to minimize the stuff in my shop. You're right about the oil weight, I misremembered the spec. 3 in 1 makes the blue bottle of unadulterated SAE 20 oil that works.
Why would you buy a SA 3 speed hub or the bike equipped with one made after 1984?
Why would you buy a SA 3 speed hub or the bike equipped with one made after 1984?
If it was NLGI 2 many would already have it or just pilfer the tiny amount required from work.
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It's possible that there are other wear/breakdown particles that are not attracted to magnets; brass, copper or bronze (the "yellow" metals), but these would be less abrasive. In any case, I only use the recycled oil for the "flush"... the final fill is always fresh oil.
I've been meaning to put some drained, unfiltered oil under a microscope and compare it to the magnetically-filtered oil. If I do this, I will try to get images and post them.
I've been meaning to put some drained, unfiltered oil under a microscope and compare it to the magnetically-filtered oil. If I do this, I will try to get images and post them.
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It's possible that there are other wear/breakdown particles that are not attracted to magnets; brass, copper or bronze (the "yellow" metals), but these would be less abrasive. In any case, I only use the recycled oil for the "flush"... the final fill is always fresh oil.
I've been meaning to put some drained, unfiltered oil under a microscope and compare it to the magnetically-filtered oil. If I do this, I will try to get images and post them.
I've been meaning to put some drained, unfiltered oil under a microscope and compare it to the magnetically-filtered oil. If I do this, I will try to get images and post them.
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Hmmm... I wonder if there are any hubs with titanium parts.
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The question would be whether titanium is actually a good material for the use.
The sintered and turned parts in Sturmey Archer hubs have worked for more than a century.
The sintered and turned parts in Sturmey Archer hubs have worked for more than a century.
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