Crankycrank

I just noticed that the tab on the cage between the pulleys that the OP is complaining is rubbing the chain should be on top of the chain rather than under as it is in the video...... I think.
The videos provided made that very difficult to see.

mpetry912 

very possibly, the passing of the chain over that tab is not intuitive - about the only other thing it can be

I stand corrected on the pulley placement

thanks

/markp

Eric F 

I'm pretty sure the OP has the routing correct. The interference would be even worse if you go under the tab. Look at the pic in the Shimano info you posted earlier. A tangent line off the the lower pulley to the upper pulley is definitely above the tab. In the real world, I have mistakenly routed a new chain under the tab. It's immediately obvious that it's wrong.

Crankycrank

Yeah, it's really difficult to tell for sure when I look at it but worth spending 10 mins of effort re-routing the chain to try it.

RocThrower

I'm just pointing out that the HG701 is a 'directional' chain and can only be installed one-way, with the writing on the links facing outwards. I'm not sure having the chain installed 'backwards' would cause this issue, but thought I'd point it out anyway. I'm guessing the OP is aware of this, and this probably isn't going to change things since they also tried a KMC chain and still had the same issue.

mitchmellow62

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/dm/MB...001-07-ENG.pdf
If I am reading the manual correctly, the chain should be routed on the other side of the "chain derailment retention plate" (the tab). See page 15. Hope that helps.

Eric F 

The chain is routed correctly, according to the manual (above the retention plate - left diagram).

Schweinhund

You have an alignment issue.

The problem is below.
Have someone adjust your shifting and show you how.
It (the hi limit screw) needs to be either loosened or that hanger isn't correct.

Schweinhund

The more I look at this, the more I think a framebuilder should look at it. I'm seeing something I don't have the words to describe and I think they would.

EDIT: I'll try. I'm seeing a derailleur hanger that is inboard just a smidgen too close to the chain. Too thick or Dropout? And a twist, just a degree or two. Dropout or frame possibly?

Crankycrank

Good thinking to just look at the manual. Wish I had thought of that. Anyway, maybe the OP should just start over and follow the manual to setup the derailleur. There's a couple things I saw in there that these derailleurs need to be checked for that not all others do such as "friction adjustment"

mitchmellow62

You're right. I'm wrong.

Camilo

Reading through this, I have no idea what advice to give. Other than this:

remove the chain, detach the cable, and remove the derailleur. Get the instructions for that derailleur and follow the installation instructions step by step, every step, skipping nothing. Derailleur mounting, limit screws, B screw, chain length, cable attachment and adjustment. That's all I got and has solved mysterious issues for me in the past - and also helped me learn to identify and solve issues.

sualfred

just testing if i can post again

sualfred

Schweinhund

Optical illusion. The pully is correctly set like in the manual of Shimano. The screw is almost loose and I'm at the limit. If I'm going to tighten it, it's starting to do the usual click-click-click noise, because the chain alignment will be wrong and starts to switch to the next gear. I retested and adjusted it again right after your sugesstion yesterday, just to be sure.

Camilo
Did this several times. Tomorrow I'll receive a Shimano XT RD-M8000 SGS deraileur. It has a slightly different cage and pulleys (both direction bound this time and with a real bearing). Just for testing if somehow both of my Deore deraileurs have a failure (I'm person, who is blessed with luck in such things, so it's really possible)

If this won't help, I have the feeling that something is going on with the hub/freehub/cassette or with the crank part. It feels like there is a vibration which develops this chain swinging (weakest area maybe?). If I slightly push the deraileur cage from the very bottom/outer edge to the top, and I mean really gently and slightly, the swinging is getting better. Like my body is damping a vibration of the cage itself.

sualfred

So..... yesterday I've installed a RD-M8000 SGS XT rear derailleur. Nothing has changed. Ok, at least a bit better. Probably because of the slightly longer cage.

I also testet 112 and 116 chain links again. It was a lot better with 112 on the large chainring, but still present. Especially on the low chainring. Anyway, it's justing "moving" to different gears, because of the different tension of the chain and cage position.
The funny thing is yes, with the KMC chain, which had the most problems, it was the "best" during my testing with different chain lenghts..

Final conclusion:
Is not caused by the deraileur, is not caused by the adjustment, is not the chain. There is something different going on.

Doubled checked the cassette, the freehub, too. I've reached the point where nothing make sense anymore and I'm about to give up.

tFUnK

Hmm... Maybe I'm being Captain Obvious here, but:

Seems like there may not be enough tension in the chain. Is the chain too long? How did you size this chain? Big/big + 1?

The bottom pulley wheel looks small. Is it stock? Looks like it can be 1t or 2t larger and still clear the cage.

Did the bike always do this or did this appear after something has been changed?

sualfred

Sorry, but these are stock. Three different deraileurs. Two of them brand new. And I've tested 112 (big+big+1) 114 (chain calculator and stock length) and 116 just to be sure. Multiple times. It has nothing to do with pulleys or chain.

It started to do this right after the first 10 kilometers and stopped after I replaced the chain for the first time in a workshop, which lasted a little bit somehow 100km< before it started again.

tFUnK

Does this happen only on the stand or also on the road?
Does this happen on all gear combinations or only some gear combinations?
Is the B screw set correctly?
Is the drivetrain running in-spec? For example, every component rated for 11 speed, the proper cranks spindle width for the frame/bottom bracket, the total chain wrap (big-small chainrings + big-small cassette cogs) is within what's rated for the rear derailleur)?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to uncover anything overlooked.

In the past I've run into alignment issues when installing an aftermarket rear derailleur cage that put the pulleys slightly inboard compared to stock, and also when my carbon rear dropouts were slightly worn, resulting in my rear cassette being moved ever so slightly closer to the derailleur hanger - both of which resulted in just enough misalignment to cause shifting issues. Not what's going on here but just pointing out it doesn't take much misalignment in a drivetrain system to cause headaches.

sualfred

Road and stand.
All gear combinations as soon as the chain is nearly straight.
B screw is set correctly
Everything is in-spec.

I covered all these usual things in the last days.

mpetry912 

sualfred you've got the best minds in the industry workin on your problem here.

so far nothing has worked. what I'd suggest is that it's now time to have a experienced mechanic at a shop look at this.

one other suggestion completely out of left field - your noise "seems" to be coming from the derailleur, but is it possible you're running a "narrow wide" chainring and have the chain clocked wrong ? This very thing caught me off guard a couple weeks ago.

I was baffled.

anyway, get a "pro" to look at this before you chew up some pricey equipment

/markp

Crankycrank

Here is a photo of the bike to compare your setup with. Click on the first drive side view photo and enlarge it to see the derailleur closer. Could the mounting arm of the derailleur be set at the wrong angle? Cube Attention Hardtail Mountain Bike (2023) | Chain Reaction (chainreactioncycles.com) Is there a reason you didn't take this to the dealer to sort it out since this is a 2023 model I would think it would be under warranty and even just paying a good mechanic would have been much less expensive than the 2 derailleurs + chains you've purchased already.

oldbobcat

I see you've got a workstand, so it shouldn't be too difficult to simulate some riding conditions in slow motion. Really slow motion. Pedal slowly and try some shifts. Does it happen while only in certain gears? Does it happen while shifting gears? Does it happen as a certain section of chain is passing through the pulleys or cassette cog? If you can drill down to the conditions that cause it, then you should be able to find the cause through repetition and observation.

tFUnK

Can you clarify this? So in the extremes big-small, small-big, big-big, small-small, this occurs? When you say "when the chain is nearly straight" are you referring to chainline, chain tension, the rear derailleur cage orientation, or something else?

sualfred

I was there when the issue started and they just changed the chain, which worked for some rides. And they charged me 60€ for a 25€ chain. Plus service fee. That's more pricey
And I'm not double left handed in mechanic things, but yeah, now my DIY experience is not enough anymore. I contacted the dealer on monday and got a reply today. They are going to pick it up and repair it. Since this will take up to 2-3 months for sure, I'm super pissed off atm.

Crankycrank
Nope, there is only one possible angle.

Appears in all gears depending on the chain length and tension. If I shorten the chain, the issue is more present on gears which were good before. It's happening while pedaling, no matter if shifting or not. While shifting sometimes it's more present, but I guess this is pretty much normal, because of the chain movement. Anyway, now it's time for the dealer to get it fixed. I've sent him the videos and the what-was-tried-history.

Chainline. But it's mostly happening in a combination of the cage orientation + chain tension. middle-small is not a problem with 114 links, but with 112. With 114 links middle+big is the problem and middle+small is fine. And with the chain different chain links/chain tension, the cage orientation differs. It's mostly noticable with middle+small/big with the correct 114 links. big/big has a ~4-5 o'clock orentation of the cage and I wasn't able to reproduce it there. Just a very noticeable vibration in the cranks. Like the vibration is not able to release the energy to the chain between the pulleys in this orientation.

Guys, thanks, but I guess we all have to wait what the dealer will do. I def. will report back. It will just take a couple of weeks/months because of the season. Since I want to take some rides with my daughters in 2 weeks (holiday time), I'm going to get another bike tomorrow in a store nearby. At least I will look for one.

sualfred

Small update:
The dealer wrote me that the bike is on it's way back to me. According to the statement of the dealer it was the rear hub of the wheel itself and it was replaced by Shimano.