tiger1964 

A search gave me THIS TOPIC on barcons amidst many others on sale or selection of above, and cable routing and the type pictured is the type I am dealing with. But I am working on a project and I have the barcons in the ends of the bars, no housing or tape yet, I kinda think they feel like cr*p and am unsure how to adjust the lever retention/adjustment bolt (the one with two nuts on the end, one being near-unobtainable if I lose it) it seems to me that the amount of tension on the bolt affects the presence/absence of the ratcheting action/sound.. I would not mind input on adjustment. Plus I have not taken the black metal over off the ratchet mechanism, the one held by a little Philips screw... what will I find in there (I've seen the exploded view but do not want little parts springing all over the place) -- is there any value in breaking them down and perhaps cleaning and lubing? 50-year old set that has been sitting a long time.

hazetguy 

they are not difficult to disassemble. nothing is going to spring out at you. the most "challenging" part is removing the circlip, don't let it fly away. the innards are just a bunch of shims/washers, the toothed wheel, the pawl, and that's about it. i think there is a small spring behind the pawl, but it's in a bore in the housing and shouldn't fly out.
when putting everything back together, make sure that the toothed wheel is oriented in the proper way to engage the pawl.
i have a set of Raleigh / Suntour barcons like this, and they were in poor working condition. i took them apart (one at a time, in case there were any disassembly/assembly questions), cleaned everything, especially the pawl (making sure it moved freely in the housing), gave the innards a light lube, and now they function excellently.


to set the tension, you loosen the 'unobtanium' outer nut, tighten the screw to whatever tension you desire, then retighten the 'unobtanium' outer nut.
i think someone reproduces that outer nut.

tiger1964 

Thanks, it sounds like I should not be afraid of diving in. For lube, what did you use? Light motor oil, chain lube (I have plenty left over, not that I wax chains), Park grease, other?

I need to dig around in the tool drawer, I think I have one of those odd little tools that are to hold the twin-slot backsides of chainring bolts... I wonder if that would fit the "unobtainium bolt? Yeah, I seem to recall a topic on replacements being "available", no idea where that topic is and I hope I don't need them!

Thew black-painted covers over the ratchets are a bit scratched up; need to decide if I want to bother with touching up the paint while I am at it, or simply use a Sharpie, or leave as-is.

My first time messing with barcons since Jimmy Carter was president, dim memories so I am re-learning. This is a friend's bike and we both seem to think I took this pair off my bike and sold them to him (I recall previously having a set of Campy barcons and did not like them either), back in the 1970's.

juvela

-----

often found them where the outer nut had been lost

recall getting replacements in a packet of ten from a distributor in Minneapolis, but this was many years ago

might be smart, while you have them apart, to put a drop of Loctite on the threads so that this nut will stay home


-----

Big Block

video of disassembly and reassembly if anyone needs the locknut https://m.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=22082240

bulgie 

Not sure if I have ever lubed mine. A little oil probably won't hurt, but any excess will drip down on the lever and thence to your fingers, which could be a safety concern if it makes your fingers slip off the brake levers. So, just a drop of oil per side maybe, any old oil should do.
No, that tool has the fingers too far apart. I have a VAR screwdriver-style made for TA Pro 5-vis chainring bolts, which are a couple mm smaller, works for Suntour Barcon nuts.



But really, most any wide-blade screwdriver can work. If the shaft of the bolt intrudes, preventing the screwdriver from staying seated in the slot, you can make a custom tool by filing or grinding a slight recess in the center of the blade, leaving just enough unmolested on either side of the recess.

You can also replace the Suntour nut with a generic nut from the hardware store. I think they're M4 x 0.7, a common size — someone correct me if I'm mis-remembering. Don't bother getting nyloc nuts, the bolt isn't long enough to reach the nyloc material. I think the standard nuts take a 7 mm wrench, not a screwdriver, and they won't look "right", but they'll work, probably more reliably than the original.

Someone, I forget whether they're on BF, designed a plastic part for 3d printing, that lets you replace also the inner nut, the one that nestles into the hexagonal recess. Then you do use a nyloc nut since there's only one nut, no jam-nut. He put the file on some downloadable forum like Thingiverse, so you can make your own if you have access to a 3d printer. Maybe someone here will remember who or where. This was a number of years ago and I never heard of anyone having any problem with that system, so I think it's proven reliable. Or maybe the people who hated it just kept quiet? Seems unlikely...

nlerner

I think it was @oneclick who created that alternative?

zukahn1 

Main thing is to be care full when removing the back screw and clip washer as said these have a tendency to go missing and are hard to replace and the threading on the back screw can tend to be bit finicky delicate.. This diagram should be helpful

bikingshearer 

I have Suntour barcons on a couple of bikes and it has never occurred to me to take them apart beyond what was needed to install them. They just work, pretty much flawlessly.

tiger1964 

Thanks! I'll watch in the entirety, although I suspect YouTube will stop it seven times for ads...

Have Dremel, Will Grind. It does not hurt that I got all-new screwdrivers perhaps a year ago, and did not throw out the old ones, some of which I have had since high school -- one of which is to be sacrificed.

Thank you -- now I just have to learn how to blow it up to size before printing.

bulgie 

I found it, it is here on Shapeways, the designer is John Thurston. Good guy, very smart, don't think he's on BF though.

This is an adapter, to let you use a generic nyloc nut to replace both of the nuts on the Suntour "axle". Done this way, you only need one tool, a screwdriver on the head of the bolt. The bushing keeps the nut from turning.

bulgie 

I haven't seen any YT ads since I started using Brave as my browser. It's based on Chromium, which is open-source I believe? So it's similar to Chrome, but not made by Google. Its main claim to fame is that it's more security- and privacy-oriented, they don't sell your eyeballs like Google does.

I don't know how it blocks YT ads, they don't seem to advertize that as a feature, but it's a nice bonus. YT has not retaliated against me in any way. Maybe they'll find a way around the ad blocking, but so far so nice.

Big Block

this pdf is print ready at 300dpi A4 size

zukahn1 

Will here's a bit larger pic of the diagram.

tiger1964 

No idea, it might be worth checking to see if it works on my Mac.

Appreciated! -- of course, now, I don't have to bother learning anything, now that I have a nice copy in my hands...

nlerner

I actually bought a pair of those, too, in addition to the ones @oneclick created. I'll need to take some pics of them installed.

tiger1964 

Pretty good video.

I have almost zero confidence of (a) reassembly without a set of snap-ring pliers, or (b) the local auto parts store of Home Depot having small ones, so I ordered a set online; if I succeed without them before arrival, well, extra tools never hurt!

At the risk of driving myself nuts, thinking of removal and reinstallation of that tiny coil spring while holding the parts and both hands inside a 5 gallon bucket -- not that it might not escape anyway!

In retrospect, I'll wager they were working great and I accidentally included there shifters in the pic of parts I stuck in the vibratory tumbler w/walnut shells, thereby gumming up the works. Making a mental note for the future, don't do that with anything with moving parts not 100% disassembled. [EDIT] Opening up the first one, oh yes, fully jammed up with walnut-shell grit!

[SECOND EDIT] All done! Using a tiny 90-degree pick, I handled the snap rings without snap-ring pliers, and was able to cancel the Amazon order. Leaving the final adjustment of tension until hooked up to the derailleurs (per video), they do feel like velvet (well, ratcheting velvet) now. Keeping all the parts laid out in order of disassembly helped, thanks to the video AND the exploded view -- but that meant cleaning each part one as a time and returning to the queue. By the way, because I had it handy, I used a thin film of Park grease as lubricant.

nlerner

Here's a pic of that 3-D printed insert installed:


It looks a bit raw.

And I also found in my stash a set of @oneclick's brass replacement nuts as well as a back-up set of the 3-D jobbers, which come as one connected piece.

tiger1964 

You'd have to look really close to notice that's not "stock".

I am holding off final adjustment of tension until derailleurs (NR) are on the bike, and I have not yet modified a screwdriver to make a special SunTour Barcon tool for that.

polymorphself 

Regarding the locknut replacement thread, oneclick seems to have dropped off of it, probably best not to direct people to it for now.

bulgie 

Neal, did you use a nyloc nut in that picture? I don't see the locking part. I think it might vibrate loose if using a plain nut. Apologies if you have the best-ever nyloc nut in there and I'm just not seeing it...

DWMITCHELL61

I have a bike with a set of those on it. They never had any "clicks" in the operation. The simply had a friction adjustment and worked real well. That was before the whole SIS and click shifting, of course. The bike had the down tube shifters and those were atrocious when on a fully loaded tour and climbing a serious grade on a narrow road with no margin. So I modified the down tube levers to be cable stops and installed the Suntour Barcons, I could shift without trying to locate the shifter levers and kept my hands on the bars.

nlerner

I was kinda surprised not to see a nyloc nut in there, Mark! I think, at the time, I just didn't have one on hand and figured I'd see how it worked with the standard jam nut. I haven't used that bike a lot (my fancy '61 Hetchins), but haven't had any slippage. I do wonder what the failure sequence is for those shifters and their hardware. If that outside round nut is the one that loosens and falls into a sewer grate, does the rest of the hardware stay in place? Can we find a lab to do some testing?

Mad Honk 

Today I was in the hardware aisle looking for a 1/4"-20 chrome cap screw, which they did not have. But the did have a bunch of pan head screws that looked like a good candidate for the lock nuts in question here. So at 22 cents per it was worth a try for a couple of sacrificial screws to find if they would work. Back home and about a half hour with a 7/32"drill bit and a 4 X .7 mm tap, I had prototype one finished. I will refine the process and post it here since a lot of folks are looking for these. Smiles, MH

The original screw on the right and prototype one on the left.

Another picture showing a bit more detail.

Mad Honk 

So today was another day to a hardware store where I found the chrome seat binder bolt, and picked up a new 4 X .7 tap and a couple of 4 X.7 bolts to do the finish work on the replacement lock nuts. Cost was under $7. I did finish one pair this afternoon and only need to put on a clear coat of paint to prevent rust formation. I was unable to find stainless steel bolts for the job, so I used what is at hand. Here are the finished lock nuts. Smiles, MH

This is what they came out looking like. A satin finish and not chrome, but it is what I have on hand.

What the new lock nuts look like on a lever.