help me choose a surly!
#26
Junior Member
Thread Starter
interesting, you're in a minority, can I ask you why you think CC would be better than Pacer? MS seems to be an updated Pacer, tho the updates seem quite substantial and thus make it quite a different bike, nevertheless I'm interested in your perspective.
#27
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I also looked for reviews of the Pack Rat when this thread came up. A year later you'd think there would be something. But no, just a few press-release rewrites from the launch. On the very first page of Google results there was a "review" that was really a tour ride report by a guy on his own custom rando bike that he asserted the Pack Rat was just like.
Also, color isn't a deal-breaker for me, but at least one option that wasn't white wouldve been nice...
Last edited by eggnoggbubble; 06-21-19 at 08:46 PM.
#28
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Jlaw I just saw your question.
I've had this bike several months now and I absolutely love it. My commute is between 5-9 miles each way (depending on whether I take a train part or the way, or cycle all the way). It's both very comfortable and highly responsive. Just wonderful on rough Philly streets. Plus it's way cool (at least I think so!)
I've had this bike several months now and I absolutely love it. My commute is between 5-9 miles each way (depending on whether I take a train part or the way, or cycle all the way). It's both very comfortable and highly responsive. Just wonderful on rough Philly streets. Plus it's way cool (at least I think so!)
Any comment on the handling with weight on that front rack? My interest in the PR is all from how I love to throw a bag on the front and go (weighed my work bag yesterday: 7kg, tho to be honest that was a particularly heavy day, it'd never be heavier than that, mostly well under 5kg, and I'm not adverse to compromising by throwing some stuff on the back on heavy days to keep the front load lighter) If the MS can handle 4-5kg on the front ok that might well sway my decision....
hmmm just realized I'll be able to try that on my friends (don't think he'll have a front rack but we can always attach something for the test ride.) No test riding today tho - raiiiinnnnyyyyyyyyyy out.
Still not ruling the PR out - it would be a lot cheaper, and I find I'm very curious about it (partly stylistically - rando seems pleasingly retro!), wish there were more reviews (if i get the PR i will definitely have to write one...). Admittedly it's rare I ride without luggage but I'd be bummed if it turns out that isn't really an option....
Probably have ruled out the CC and straggler tho....down to a choice of two! MS nudging slightly ahead tho it's currently still a close race....
#29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If you get bar-end shifters, you should be able to easily upgrade to Gevenalle brake levers that move those barends up to where you can reach them easily. (They were originally called 'Retroshift')
For drivetrain, I would recommend 1x. Play around with an online gear calculator, and figure out if you have an 11-36 cassette (or 11-4X?), how many teeth would you want in the front to give you the range you will need? Pair the cassette with an RD with a long enough cage, and you're good to go. (plus you only need one shifter; Gevenalle also makes 1x lever sets).
#30
Senior Member
I know this isn't what you're looking for, but Surly bikes are heavy, over-hyped and over-priced, in my opionion.
But to each his own.
You can get more bike for the same price if you look elsewhere.
But to each his own.
You can get more bike for the same price if you look elsewhere.
#31
Full Member
I am fortunate to have a few regular rides but my Cross Check is my SUV of bikes. I is comfortable and carries a load easily without being a boring ride. It handles front loads, back loads, or both without a problem. It may not be the stable, planted tourer that a LHT is, but it will be more fun to ride when lightly or not loaded, and still is quite acceptqble loaded. I have done a couple light tours on it where I put front panniers on my Tubus Duo low rider rack and a handlebar bag and it handles the load fine, feels planted. The Cross Check is no racer but it does most things short of mountain biking with a bit of spirit. (No, I don't work for Surly)
My buddy has a Straggler and loves it. If I where buying now I would choose it as I have had bikes with hydraulic disks for 15 years and much prefer them over rim brakes, but the mini Vee brakes on the CC work well.
I also have 1 x 12 on my mountain bike and 1 x 11 on my gravel bike. !x is great on those rides where you are constantly going up and down and dumping lots of gears, but I would not go to 1x on a bike that I like to keep a cadence on.
You will likely enjoy whatever you choose.
My buddy has a Straggler and loves it. If I where buying now I would choose it as I have had bikes with hydraulic disks for 15 years and much prefer them over rim brakes, but the mini Vee brakes on the CC work well.
I also have 1 x 12 on my mountain bike and 1 x 11 on my gravel bike. !x is great on those rides where you are constantly going up and down and dumping lots of gears, but I would not go to 1x on a bike that I like to keep a cadence on.
You will likely enjoy whatever you choose.
#32
Senior Member
Even though I really like the looks of the Midnight Special there is some truth in what you say. For example, the Kona Rove - aluminum frame and fork (may be a bit lighter, but possibly harsher), solid 9 speed drive train, TRP Spyre mech. discs, OEM fenders and Schwalbe tires. $1099 instead of $2000.
The Rove is a model line - 6 models priced from $849 to $3599. KONA BIKES | ROAD / GRAVEL | ROVE
With big (ger) tires at low pressure the ride of the aluminum frame and fork might be indistinguishable from the steel-framed Midnight Special (I'm still recovering from the ride offered by my 1999 Cannondale with 23mm tires - I don't miss that bike!)
The Rove fits 700x40 or 650bx47.
Bicycling magazine did a review last year: https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...a-rove-review/
One thing I might change is the 50/34 crank for the new Shimano GRX 46/30 road crank (about $150 for crank set and BB) - or maybe a less exensive 39/26 MTB crank. The OEM cassette is a useful 11-34.
And, a set of 650b MTB wheels would be good so a set of 47mm tires could be mounted. The front fork of the Rove is 100mm and the rear is 135mm so it takes an MTB wheel set. A QR to Through-Axle conversion kit will be needed if the MTB wheels are TA - about $250 for wheels and kit: Mavic 27.5 in Mountain bike Wheelset Shimano XT 6 Bolt Disc Hub [740757] - $199.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike
This is the $1099 model - Rove DL
Based upon the Bicycling review this rig should weigh around 27 lbs.
Last edited by jlaw; 06-22-19 at 06:20 AM.
#33
Senior Member
Or, the Salsa Journeyman 650b - a lot to love here for $1199. It is spec'd a bit more along the lines of what I'd like as compared to the Kona Rove DL - 650b wheels, 9 speed with 46/30 crank and 11-34 cassette. I'm not so sure about Promax brakes - might be ok.
I'd put some fenders on it and switch the tires to something less aggressive for about $150.
26 lbs. as shown
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/journe...eyman_sora_650
I'd put some fenders on it and switch the tires to something less aggressive for about $150.
26 lbs. as shown
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/journe...eyman_sora_650
#34
Senior Member
Any comment on the handling with weight on that front rack? My interest in the PR is all from how I love to throw a bag on the front and go (weighed my work bag yesterday: 7kg, tho to be honest that was a particularly heavy day, it'd never be heavier than that, mostly well under 5kg, and I'm not adverse to compromising by throwing some stuff on the back on heavy days to keep the front load lighter) If the MS can handle 4-5kg on the front ok that might well sway my decision....
Still not ruling the PR out
I do have this caution about using the front rack -- I learned last night that my handlebar mounted headlight is blocked by the Sugarloaf bag in the basket, so I won't be carrying the bag at night. Also, I had to mount the Wald basket lengthwise, because when mounted sidewise the sides of the basket hindered the inward motion of my shifters. Not a big deal for me, but it does mean I don't have easy access to the contents of the bag in the basket from the cockpit.
Finally, regarding the cost of the MS, which is not insignificant, I was extremely fortunate as to buy mine used but in new condition (other than a scrubbed up decal), from an employee of my LBS, at a significant savings.
If I had been planning to use the front rack as my primary rack and for heavier loads, I would probably have bought a Pack Rat.
Good luck in your decision I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever you choose!
Rob
Last edited by golftdi; 06-22-19 at 08:08 AM.
#35
Keepin it Wheel
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Road bike geometry, light touring capability, wide tires of you need them, supports new 105 group perfectly, downtubes if you want to go that way with a lower gear count, nice sturdy forks if you find yourself in a bind. Just a really nice product. It is literally the perfect bike for the R7000 group, and good all around roadbike. 650s or 700s for the wheels. Mountain or road hubs. They just nailed it. Check the specs of both in the disc version of 105. Universal Cycles is a good place to crosscheck (pun intended) the specs. Cost is the only real issue, but like I said, if you’ve got the dough, it might be perfect for you.
#36
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Surly doesn’t win on price usually but it seems unfair to compare the MS to the Jo. Sora when the Vaya 105 is more similar and also $2k
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#37
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Needs some colors though...Maybe that will come.
Last edited by rollalongnow; 06-22-19 at 02:56 PM.
#38
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I also looked for reviews of the Pack Rat when this thread came up. A year later you'd think there would be something. But no, just a few press-release rewrites from the launch. On the very first page of Google results there was a "review" that was really a tour ride report by a guy on his own custom rando bike that he asserted the Pack Rat was just like.
There are a lot of other bikes like the Midnight Special, though usually not steel framed. I'd get the one whose color I liked best.
But for that matter, the Cross Check is basically the same as hybrid bikes from the early 90's, like the Trek Multi-Track which started out with the same frame as the 520 touring bike from the 80's.
There are a lot of other bikes like the Midnight Special, though usually not steel framed. I'd get the one whose color I liked best.
But for that matter, the Cross Check is basically the same as hybrid bikes from the early 90's, like the Trek Multi-Track which started out with the same frame as the 520 touring bike from the 80's.
#39
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I'm looking at Surly bikes, my options seem to be:
- Crosscheck - great reputation as an all rounder
- Pack Rat - if I understand correctly it's basically the Crosscheck optimised for front loading.
- Midnight Stealth - a faster roadbike
- (also-ran: Straggler, if I understand correctly (again - surly's lineup is a little bewildering!) the Straggler is basically the Crosscheck with disks, though I think I don't need disks, am looking for a nice simple light setup)
Last edited by Tabor; 06-22-19 at 03:40 PM.
#40
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My Cross Check is turning out to be one of my favorite bikes ever. It's right up with my '73 Paramount and that's saying a bunch......
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#41
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Thread Starter
Hey all thanks for all the pointers! I've spent the last couple of mornings on the internet (bad weather facilitates bike research!) and I think I've reached a tentative decision.I've become clearer that front-loading is important to me:
Additionally I realize I'm hoping to keep this project within $1500, certainly less than $2000 (a good price-point for an exploratory purchase: I haven't bike commuted full time in years, and I haven't tried this kind of front-loader before) which rules out the MS (the Surly-are-a-tad-overpriced argument definitely applies here).
Narrowing the field to front-loading limits my choices quite a bit, basically (bike / frameset price / brake type):
and since I have a Surly dealer 10mins from my house....Pack Rat it is!
I also watched the pathlesspedaled review a bunch of times and he seems pretty happy with it overall, there was one commenter loved his too, so I'm going to go with it. Will be heading down to the LBS sometime soon to discuss the build....
Final comment is from golftdi tho:
Yup, it's definitely possible to overthink these things, research has been done, decision has been taken, I'm sure it will be great! Might take a while but you can expect an update with pics and thoughts on the bike once I get it!
thanks again for all the help, seeing all your thoughts (and replying with my own) really helped me nail this down!
cheers everyone hope you are getting out on your bikes this weekend (rainy here....)
- the convenience of strap-backpack-and-go (or even throw-it-in-basket-and-go if I add a basket)
- the weight of one bag will be centered (I used to ride my Sirrus with one pannier, it was ok, but a little weird if the pannier got heavy).
- I've got some bumps and occasional curbs to negotiate, easier with weight up front, I can remember back weight waving around on my Sirrus)
- have hills - climbing with weight up front seems easier
- I've been reading Jan Heine....(I recognize opinion is divided on that tho!)
- Any touring I do will be short (1-2 nights) and light
Additionally I realize I'm hoping to keep this project within $1500, certainly less than $2000 (a good price-point for an exploratory purchase: I haven't bike commuted full time in years, and I haven't tried this kind of front-loader before) which rules out the MS (the Surly-are-a-tad-overpriced argument definitely applies here).
Narrowing the field to front-loading limits my choices quite a bit, basically (bike / frameset price / brake type):
- Pack Rat / $515 / Canti or V
- Soma Grand Randoneer / $490 / Canti or V
- Velo Orange Polyvalent / $725 / Disk
- Rawland Ravn / $950 / Disk
and since I have a Surly dealer 10mins from my house....Pack Rat it is!
I also watched the pathlesspedaled review a bunch of times and he seems pretty happy with it overall, there was one commenter loved his too, so I'm going to go with it. Will be heading down to the LBS sometime soon to discuss the build....
Final comment is from golftdi tho:
I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever you choose!
thanks again for all the help, seeing all your thoughts (and replying with my own) really helped me nail this down!
cheers everyone hope you are getting out on your bikes this weekend (rainy here....)
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#42
Senior Member
Glad to help (and we all enjoy the vicarious thrill of your search)
#43
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Post photos when you’re ready
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Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#44
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I'm late to the party but awesome call on the Pack Rat! If they had made them a few years ago I would have one instead of my CC. While the CC handles a front load alright, it is noticeably worse at it than my main (randonneur) bike. That might be related to my tendency to pack the hell out of Surly Porteurhouse bag (on a 24 pack rack!) but it is what it is- the steering is bad when it's really loaded down.
As for the Surly PR v Soma GR debate (I know it's settled)- I will say that my GR is also lovely but I found it to be lighter and flexier than I like. Part of what sold me on the slightly "stout" randonneur that Norther Cycles put out was my experience with the GR. I think if you want to have the option to haul lots of crap around while still maintaining a fun ride, the Surly is an awesome choice.
As for the Surly PR v Soma GR debate (I know it's settled)- I will say that my GR is also lovely but I found it to be lighter and flexier than I like. Part of what sold me on the slightly "stout" randonneur that Norther Cycles put out was my experience with the GR. I think if you want to have the option to haul lots of crap around while still maintaining a fun ride, the Surly is an awesome choice.
#45
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I'm sure you'll be happy with whichever you choose!
Yup, that is the key. At some point you have to just commit to a decision and start enjoying. All of the options discussed here are good options that would result in an enjoyable and useful bike.
#46
Senior Member
With a light weight on the front rack, my MS rides just fine. Last night I put a heavier load in front (sorry no pics), and I will say that it rides better with heavier weight on the back rack, than it does on the front rack.
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#47
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@golftdi, okay now you're just showing off. Well done!
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#49
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Thread Starter
Thought I'd provide a brief update:
I still like the PR but it seems it's Y196,000 ($1,806), ouch, really I was hoping this to come in around Y150,000....(CC is about that, PR seems to be $400 more....), i've been finding it very difficult to justify the purchase at that price. Part of the extra seems to be because low-trail is a bit of a niche (there isn't really anything cheaper available) and part seems to be because surly is very trendy...
Looking around at alternatives I've found the Fuji Feather CX+, - basically a steel road plus (700 wheels) bike with disk brakes, for Y100,000 ($995) - half the price!! (and well under my Y150,000 or so budget) Will need to add a rear rack to that of course ($50~100?).
So....although I would love a bike that loads well at the front.....is it worth an extra $800??? I'm finding it hard to feel that it is...
An extra way of thinking about this is with the Fuji I could try it out, see how I get on with loading the rear (which admittedly I have done before, wasn't wild about it though it did the job) with the option to get a Rawland Ravn frameset later on down the line - both are disk so presumably I could switch my parts across to get my low-trail front-loader...(PR not disk so that wouldn't work, unless Surly bring out a disk version....) Ravn does look pretty dreamy, takes 26-650-700 wheels with big tires, looks like every bike I could ever want. (there's a ravn frameset on ebay for $600 but not in my size.)
Gonna have to sit with this one a little longer, I really do like the look and concept of the PR, but really not sure I like it enough to pay an extra $800...(the wonderwife did ok the PR purchase, she was a little surprised at the inflated budget but said I should buy the bike I want <3! )
I still like the PR but it seems it's Y196,000 ($1,806), ouch, really I was hoping this to come in around Y150,000....(CC is about that, PR seems to be $400 more....), i've been finding it very difficult to justify the purchase at that price. Part of the extra seems to be because low-trail is a bit of a niche (there isn't really anything cheaper available) and part seems to be because surly is very trendy...
Looking around at alternatives I've found the Fuji Feather CX+, - basically a steel road plus (700 wheels) bike with disk brakes, for Y100,000 ($995) - half the price!! (and well under my Y150,000 or so budget) Will need to add a rear rack to that of course ($50~100?).
So....although I would love a bike that loads well at the front.....is it worth an extra $800??? I'm finding it hard to feel that it is...
An extra way of thinking about this is with the Fuji I could try it out, see how I get on with loading the rear (which admittedly I have done before, wasn't wild about it though it did the job) with the option to get a Rawland Ravn frameset later on down the line - both are disk so presumably I could switch my parts across to get my low-trail front-loader...(PR not disk so that wouldn't work, unless Surly bring out a disk version....) Ravn does look pretty dreamy, takes 26-650-700 wheels with big tires, looks like every bike I could ever want. (there's a ravn frameset on ebay for $600 but not in my size.)
Gonna have to sit with this one a little longer, I really do like the look and concept of the PR, but really not sure I like it enough to pay an extra $800...(the wonderwife did ok the PR purchase, she was a little surprised at the inflated budget but said I should buy the bike I want <3! )
Last edited by eggnoggbubble; 07-07-19 at 01:55 AM.
#50
bill nyecycles
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Don't be afraid to check out All City bikes as well. Similar to Surly's offerings, with maybe a few more points for style. The Macho Man may suit your needs - though I'm not sure it's got mounts for a front rack.