Helix Update?
#2851
Senior Member
Hmm... the initial Kickstarter price was low, I think about half current price, especially good for both a new design and one from titanium. I sure hope that was not a factor. Because that's one of the things one is entitled to when they early fund a project, at a stated price. I'd be curious if a price increase was forced on them, or any other reason, for not getting a bike.
#2852
Senior Member
I don't remember if they got a forced price increase but yeah, this ended up where it was always going: a ti bike for a ti bike price. But hey, they made some and some people bought 'em!
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#2853
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Yes, about one year ago, the backers that didn't receive their reward yet, had the choice to either pay a substantial price increase or be refunded within an undefined timeframe.
From what I understood from following the Helix project from the beginning, only a little more than 50% of the backers received their reward and none of the pre-ordered bikes were delivered (pre-orders took place just after the end of the Kickstarter campaign with a price only slightly higher than the one of the kickstarter campaign; much less than the current Helix price).
After that, there were several opportunities to buy Helix at a much higher price than the one of the Kickstarter campaign.
But my impression is that there were much less than 2400 Helix produced, maybe 600 for backers and then the several batch produced with a small number of bikes in every production batch.
Does anyone know how many Helix were produced (just a rough estimation)?
I think that many of the 2400 Helix Hong Kong Facebook group members do not own an Helix because then there would be much more than 2400 Helix produced what seems to me impossible seen the amount of bike Helix can produce per year and the fact that production was interrupted several times for several reasons (lack of components during covid, stem problem...)?
From what I understood from following the Helix project from the beginning, only a little more than 50% of the backers received their reward and none of the pre-ordered bikes were delivered (pre-orders took place just after the end of the Kickstarter campaign with a price only slightly higher than the one of the kickstarter campaign; much less than the current Helix price).
After that, there were several opportunities to buy Helix at a much higher price than the one of the Kickstarter campaign.
But my impression is that there were much less than 2400 Helix produced, maybe 600 for backers and then the several batch produced with a small number of bikes in every production batch.
Does anyone know how many Helix were produced (just a rough estimation)?
I think that many of the 2400 Helix Hong Kong Facebook group members do not own an Helix because then there would be much more than 2400 Helix produced what seems to me impossible seen the amount of bike Helix can produce per year and the fact that production was interrupted several times for several reasons (lack of components during covid, stem problem...)?
#2854
Newbie
(above) Hmm... Hong Kong and Singapore... my perception of both are "high rent", lots of money; Perhaps that has resulted in their getting a disproportionate number of Helix owners, if the pricing there, with exchange rate, makes Helix company more money? Or that the environment (pricey to own and park a car), with good public transport, places an extra premium on a good folding bike? Or there are Helix dealers with good company relations? I'd enjoy comments on any or all of the above. Thanks.
- Hong Kong and Singapore are both very dense cities, much denser than most western cities
- Density makes getting around by bike a lot easier. It also discourages automobile use due to congestion
- Both cities have highly developed bike infrastructure
- Singapore (and maybe Hong Kong as well) puts high taxes, restrictions and other impediments making owning a car difficult, onerous and extremely expensive
- As you mentioned, both cities have comparably high GDP
- In a comparably high GDP city which is dense, has developed bike infrastructure and getting around by car is cumbersome and very expensive, it makes sense that people would put higher value on their bike and be more willing to spend on bikes and bike equipment
But my impression is that there were much less than 2400 Helix produced, maybe 600 for backers and then the several batch produced with a small number of bikes in every production batch.
Does anyone know how many Helix were produced (just a rough estimation)?
I think that many of the 2400 Helix Hong Kong Facebook group members do not own an Helix because then there would be much more than 2400 Helix produced what seems to me impossible seen the amount of bike Helix can produce per year and the fact that production was interrupted several times for several reasons (lack of components during covid, stem problem...)?
Does anyone know how many Helix were produced (just a rough estimation)?
I think that many of the 2400 Helix Hong Kong Facebook group members do not own an Helix because then there would be much more than 2400 Helix produced what seems to me impossible seen the amount of bike Helix can produce per year and the fact that production was interrupted several times for several reasons (lack of components during covid, stem problem...)?
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#2855
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Thanks for the information.
It seems that the production capabilities of Helix increased a lot since the beginning of the production when backers were waiting for their bike!?
Nevertheless, with 2400 on the Hong Kong FB group, there are not many Helix elsewhere in the world (assume about 50 bikes more/month since yours, that's about 3100 now, with 2400 in HK, only about 700 in the rest of the world).
It seems that the production capabilities of Helix increased a lot since the beginning of the production when backers were waiting for their bike!?
Nevertheless, with 2400 on the Hong Kong FB group, there are not many Helix elsewhere in the world (assume about 50 bikes more/month since yours, that's about 3100 now, with 2400 in HK, only about 700 in the rest of the world).
#2856
Newbie
Thanks for the information.
It seems that the production capabilities of Helix increased a lot since the beginning of the production when backers were waiting for their bike!?
Nevertheless, with 2400 on the Hong Kong FB group, there are not many Helix elsewhere in the world (assume about 50 bikes more/month since yours, that's about 3100 now, with 2400 in HK, only about 700 in the rest of the world).
It seems that the production capabilities of Helix increased a lot since the beginning of the production when backers were waiting for their bike!?
Nevertheless, with 2400 on the Hong Kong FB group, there are not many Helix elsewhere in the world (assume about 50 bikes more/month since yours, that's about 3100 now, with 2400 in HK, only about 700 in the rest of the world).
#2857
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Yes, the Birdy is expensive but it has features not available on any other folding bike like the excellent front suspension that doesn't dive when braking or pedaling and 50mm wide tires.
Its rear rack that automatically folds when folding the bike and accepts big pannier without any heel interactions when pedaling is also unique.
Several Moulton have still frame mounting points for front and rear racks but the rear rack doesn't accept big pannier only a big trunk bag (for the big rear rack) and its not folding.
Its rear rack that automatically folds when folding the bike and accepts big pannier without any heel interactions when pedaling is also unique.
Several Moulton have still frame mounting points for front and rear racks but the rear rack doesn't accept big pannier only a big trunk bag (for the big rear rack) and its not folding.
#2858
Schwinnasaur
I believe you can order direct to Pacific Cycles. You can also order through some local shops. I don't know of any shops that stock them.
#2859
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Hi. Looking at purchasing a Helix and would be interested to know peoples opinion regarding the Standard v Ultralight models? Anyone have experience of riding both and can comment on whether the reduced weight of the Ultralight is worth the additional cost? Thanks
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#2860
Newbie
There are people in the Telegram group with both. If you'd like an invite, feel free to DM me.
#2861
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I have the Ultralight derailleur 11 speed and also the Standard Alfine model and the weight difference is notable when riding. It’s also quite noticeable when carrying the bike in its folded position. I think it’s something like a 6lb weight difference. If I was going to buy another one I’d might choose the Ultralight Alfine model as I do appreciate the simplicity of the hub gear for the folding bike. Also, I have an issue on the Ultralight model where I’ve been having difficulty positioning the shifter and brake on the narrow handlebar in such a way that they don’t rub against my thumb while riding. For some reason my bike came with XTR brake levers rather than the Hope Cura levers that appear to leave more room for adjustment.
#2863
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In my opinion the cost is worth going for the ultralight. I went for the standard thinking I could find better, cheaper, lighter components........I was probs wrong.
#2864
Newbie
UL is confirm more lighter more lighter to carry.
but if u plan to upgrade your bike with your preferred part, better buy standard like me.
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#2866
Newbie
Has anyone compared the Helix Ultralight vs. the Brompton T-Line? I'm in the market for a bike. I've been following Helix since Day 1 on Kickstarter. After years of delay it seems if I order now I can get a Ultralight in May of 2024, just a month away. I took the T-Line for a test ride. I liked it but I wonder if the Helix is better?
#2867
Senior Member
Has anyone compared the Helix Ultralight vs. the Brompton T-Line? I'm in the market for a bike. I've been following Helix since Day 1 on Kickstarter. After years of delay it seems if I order now I can get a Ultralight in May of 2024, just a month away. I took the T-Line for a test ride. I liked it but I wonder if the Helix is better?
Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-31-24 at 04:58 PM.
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#2868
Newbie
With Bromptons, I've seen people extend the gear range without an IGH by adding a 58T chainring. Also, the T-Line will be offering a 12-speed soon but that could defeat the purpose of the 16.4 pound lightweight titanium bike. Your response has been helpful. I wish I could examine a Helix and take one on a test ride. I did feel every bump and jar on NYC rough roads on the T-Line. It got tiring. The skinny 16" wheels didn't help. It's still a great bike on smooth roads. Hmm...
#2869
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Completely different animals. The Brompton is the most compact folder, so primo for daily multi-mode commutes, but has the disadvantage of small tires 16"/349 bead diameter; steering more "twitchy/responsive", ride inherently worse, and especially with typical skinny Brompton tires, and I don't know if fatter tires will fit. Most bikes with larger wheels are a much larger fold, such as ones with 20" wheels that are "bifold", whereas the Bromption is "trifold", plus folds with the chain to the inside so less likely to get you or other things oily. However the Helix has a very clever fold that is more compact than bifolds, even though it has 24" wheels. They were able to do this with a swinging rear triangle like the Brompton, but also an innovative folding fork. For longer rides and especially pannier touring, the Helix should be a much better performer, due to two steps larger size tires, but you should check if it still fits within checked bag size of 62" girth if flying. While technically too large, people have brought disguised Bromptons as carry-on luggage. Also, the Brompton, due to the very small wheels, requires an Internal Gear Hub (IGH) for an overdrive to have a high enough top gear. The Helix does not require this so maintenance is much simpler and less expensive, and service in the field on a tour much easier or any bike shop can fix, whereas the number of bike shops in the USA that actually repair IGHs is very limited, one in my town (one of the best).
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#2870
Senior Member
With Bromptons, I've seen people extend the gear range without an IGH by adding a 58T chainring. Also, the T-Line will be offering a 12-speed soon but that could defeat the purpose of the 16.4 pound lightweight titanium bike. Your response has been helpful. I wish I could examine a Helix and take one on a test ride. I did feel every bump and jar on NYC rough roads on the T-Line. It got tiring. The skinny 16" wheels didn't help. It's still a great bike on smooth roads. Hmm...
Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-31-24 at 05:48 PM.
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#2871
Senior Member
I thought I was being complimentary. The Helix is an amazing bike. I don't recall the exact difference in folded size with a Brompton, but recall looking at that when it first was announced, and I was quite impressed. Innovative design, super compact with almost full size tires, quality, plus titanium, and initially was an amazing price for all that. I just don't know if it will fit standard checked bag size. I had also wondered about rear rack ability but have since seen videos of people pannier touring with one.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-31-24 at 10:38 PM.
#2872
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Has anyone compared the Helix Ultralight vs. the Brompton T-Line? I'm in the market for a bike. I've been following Helix since Day 1 on Kickstarter. After years of delay it seems if I order now I can get a Ultralight in May of 2024, just a month away. I took the T-Line for a test ride. I liked it but I wonder if the Helix is better?
- T-line is really lightweight, it weight much less than Helix Ultralight. Helix, even the Ultralight, is an heavy bike for a bike with a titanium frame (take into account that a big part of the weight reduction of the Ultralight come from the Tubolito tubes and ultralight tires).
- Whatever the claims of Helix, T-line folds smaller and its folding mechanism is very simple and reliable compared to the complex system of Helix.
-T-line has a poor transmission, the 12s with IGH is a nonsense on such a lightweight bike, while Helix has an good derailleur transmission (but I do not see any reason o use a Ethirtheen cassette with a 9t smallest cog on a 24" wheels bike).
- Brompton has a full range of accessories with an excellent front bag carrier, while there is still nothing for Helix (some accessories are announced).
- Helix has a major problem with tires: its limited to about 40mm wide and the choice of tires is very limited, there are no high end tires available for Helix (ETRTO 40x507 or narrower) while there is now a wide range of tires for the Brompton, with tires for all needs (from race road tires to spikes snow tires!).
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#2873
Newbie
With Bromptons, I've seen people extend the gear range without an IGH by adding a 58T chainring. Also, the T-Line will be offering a 12-speed soon but that could defeat the purpose of the 16.4 pound lightweight titanium bike. Your response has been helpful. I wish I could examine a Helix and take one on a test ride. I did feel every bump and jar on NYC rough roads on the T-Line. It got tiring. The skinny 16" wheels didn't help. It's still a great bike on smooth roads. Hmm...
but i stay at SG
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#2874
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I didn't mention comfort in the drawback of the T-line and Helix because both have this problem: both have relatively narrow tires (35mm for the T-line, the frame should accept 40mm but there is only one slick race tire in 40x349, 38mm for Helix, narrower for the Ultralight), Helix has bigger wheels but a stiffer frame+fork, T-line has a (poor) rear suspension and a softer frame (the titanium frame of the T-line is significantly softer than the steel main frame of the other Brompton).
So both are OK on good; smooth roads and bad on bad roads, cobbles for instance.
Testing the T-line in Europe is now relatively easy, Brompton has a now a network of retailers approved to sell and maintain the T-line (not all Brompton retailers are allowed to sell+maintain the T-line) most of these have a test T-line.
So both are OK on good; smooth roads and bad on bad roads, cobbles for instance.
Testing the T-line in Europe is now relatively easy, Brompton has a now a network of retailers approved to sell and maintain the T-line (not all Brompton retailers are allowed to sell+maintain the T-line) most of these have a test T-line.
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#2875
Newbie
Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, I test rode the 4-speed T-Line in NYC at the Brompton Junction Store on Bleecker St. I would like to test ride the Helix Ultralight, or any Helix. If anyone lives in NYC and would allow me to test ride their bike, I'd be very grateful. I've read that the Helix is stiff and uncomfortable to ride. I don't know. I was even thinking about getting a Tern Verge X11. The T-Line and Helix are both supercool bikes but if there's a folding bike that's faster, more comfortable, and less fatiguing over long distances, I would consider it. In NYC, the roads are awful. Potholes and torn up streets everywhere. I'm even considering an e-assist bike, perhaps 250 watts. It's amazing to see how fast big, clumsy 65lb. Citi-E-bikes are with 500 watts.