jfouellette

This one

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...-TZ500-LN.html

tcs

You seem to have missed post no. 28.

Brompton, with their frivolous "3D Copyright" claim, has now had their derriere handed back to them twice in EU court.

tcs

You gotta love how the Brompton fanboys seek out pictures that make it look like the Brompton folds smaller than the Dahon Curl.

tcs

Based on the precedent of Brompton's EU Court loses, I think the European market is wide open as well.

Don't use Brompton's copyrighted/trademarked name, logos, font, marketing literature, etc. Sell 16" trifolds.

tcs

"The best defense against copying is innovation.” Will Butler-Adams

tcs

EU Courts ruled that the Brompton bicycle is a functional design, not sculpture or artwork. There is no '3D Copyright' for functional designs. One gets a patent (the intellectual property protection that applies to functional designs) for this.

Brompton's patents have expired.

Customers can tell the products apart by the copyrighted/trademarked name (decals & labels), the font & the logos, all of which should tie the product to the company's reputation and product support.

Jipe

Its true that Brompton almost didn't innovate since the original design of Andrew Ritchie which was a real braking thru innovation since decades later its still the smallest folding bike on the market (yes Dahon Curl is maybe slightly smaller, but the difference is marginal and the Curl designed is derived from the Andrew Ritchie design).

The T-line is for me no design innovation, just a material upgrade and the 4s derailleur is just ridiculous.

But the Asian clones are also no innovations, they even copy the drawbacks of the Brompton (the bigger wheelbase is not an innovation and not needed to make a more stable bike, other folding bikes with the same wheelbase as the Brompton are more stable).

And Litepro is probably the worse, they only copy other manufacturers products (not only Brompton) selling cheap low quality copies, they do not innovate at all.

Nor Brompton nor the copycat brands made folding bike design progress (excepted for the much lower weight with the T-line but the organized shortage commercial strategy is a shame).

CrimsonEclipse

The Curl D9 is an interesting design. In another time, I would have considered it.
This is Dahon's version of the Brompton and Dahon somehow managed to give it a "Hunchback of Notre Dame" look to it.
Disk Brakes, good deal.
But what's with that derailleur?!
Guess you need extra things sticking out to grab onto random obstacles and objects.

Overall, looks like Dahon added more innovation into one or 2 years of the Curl than Brompton has in 50 years.

Jipe

The extension of the derailleur is meant to maintain the chain tensionned when the rear triangle is folded.

This type of tensionner was used on the Birdy 1 and Birdy 2 and wasn't reliable, reason why a new tensionner concept located around the crankset chainring was implemented on the Birdy 3.

Schwinnsta

I wonder if the Curl has a rear shock. Apparently the Curl has jettisoned the front luggage block to get a narrower fold. To me that is unfortunate, but it does have a narrower fold. I like the rear derailleur. I like the design of the rear rack and taking the second pair of easy wheels off of the main frame. Not shown in the photo, the front fork is one sided, again I assume it to be for narrowing the fold.

I am all for the clones. Bring in the clones. I am skeptical of copies if they have nothing more to offer than price, though that is not a bad thing. While searching for 20-inch trifolds, I saw this. While I would not buy the whole bike, if I could buy the rear wheel with cassette, derailleur and shifter, I might do that and put it on my B

Winfried

+1. Having to carry a backpack is a show-stopper for me.

Schwinnsta

I used the search term "Brompton folding bike" on Amazon and the first hit, above the Bromptons, was this. Interesting as far as design goes. Torque sensor too.

Jipe

6.8Ah 36V = 244Wh, not 350Wh, its the hub motor which is rated for 350W.

Battery servicing won't be easy !

Schwinnsta

I would not seriously consider getting it, but it does have some interesting features. I do like the battery placement. Better there than in the seatpost or bag. I like that they are using 305 tires, apparently. I don't like that the fold exposes the chain.

tds101 

At that cRazY price I'd pass, but it looks to be an interesting ride. Also, I'd only go with disc brakes on an ebike. That extra stopping power is a must over 15 mph.

edwong3

OK. So, I removed your quoted comment from my original post. Happy now?

edwong3

It comes with disc brakes:

tds101 

Maybe,...

Winfried

The closest legit alternative to the Brompton is the Vello Rocky: (strong) disk brakes and a Brompton-compatible front carriage block.

About the same weight, a bit bigger folded, same price as the six-speeder.

If I had to get a folder for touring, I'd get either a Vello or a Birdy.

CrimsonEclipse

How is this "legit"

Winfried

In that it's not just a copy-paste of the Brompton

Which is why the Vello is sold in the West

Schwinnsta

I don't see it as any more legit than the other clones. It is not an exact copy. But bicycles have been largely copies for most of their history. Brompton, or Andrew Ritchie, was just more original than most. I do think that clones help the advance of things. Not to say that I disagree with patent law, either.

Looking at the Vello, it looks small, but then the wheel is removed. Is this a legitimate advance? My Swift would look smaller if I pulled the front wheel off. And what is up with the small rear fender?

Jipe

The Vello uses a folding fork similar to the one of the Tyrell Ive.

The front wheel must not be removed like on some Bike Friday, the Ahooga, Change Bike, Montague....

Now its bigger folded than the Brompton and slightly bigger folded than the Birdy.

About the who copied what, I would say that the Vello folding is close to the Tyrell folding.

As far as I know, Riese & Müller didn't copy anybody when introducing the first Birdy?

Reddleman

The linear size (height plus width plus length) of the Vello at 165cm is surprisingly less than a standard bi-fold 20” wheeled folder - are there other folders with matching wheel size that beat that other than probably a Birdy with larger wheels?

Winfried

It the Brompton clones were legit, they'd be sold in the West…

Asian manufacturers know full well they're just copycats… so they stay away from Western markets, where their bikes would be held at customs and destroyed.