edwong3

I do hope to regain my strength and endurance to be able to do reasonably long rides again.

Thanks Don.

Edward

Duragrouch

Oh I knew you don't have a Liberte. I was just commenting in general about value.

Yes, most electrics get by with limited gearing. Just me personally, but I always want a full gear range for manual pedaling for exercise, and if the electric system goes dead, especially if touring. For me, full range means, not as much as a dedicated touring or mountain bike, I'm sacrificing top end to have a decent low end, close to 20 gear inches. I'll never win a race on it, but 85 gear inches is enough top end for me at this stage in life. 1X gearing definitely has advantages, but 20" wheels limit the size of pieplate-low in back (although I think they may have rear derailleurs now that pivot between the two pulley wheels, to improve ground clearance). But a 9-36 might work; I have not yet investigated if that requires a different freewheel body versus an 11 high. I'm not concerned about cog wear on the 9, as high gear is used infrequently, and not when climbing, which is when I think most cog and chain wear occurs.

Duragrouch

Oh I agree, the Liberte at $300 is a HUGE deal, especially with that component quality. I'm just pining for disc brakes due to the steeps and rain here.

I also suffer from some disabilities. Taking a walker with me would be impossible, so I've rigged my bike like a parkinson's walker: Clip-on aero bars with widely-spaced forearm supports, on a high handlebar position (old Dahon fixed stem), and a "mid-cable" brake lever spliced into the front brake cable, lever mounted front left on the clip-on. Note: Mid-cable levers are all short pull, not designed for V-brakes, but it works as long as the brakes are adjusted close, and the lever force is easier too. This setup also wheels much better over sidewalk irregularities, it only lacks some of the lateral stability of a walker. Regarding shopping, due to increased bike theft, stores here now let folks wheel a bike thru. I can't wheel both the bike and a cart, so just put goods into the panniers (front and rear, you can't see the rears in the pic below) and pull out at checkout, I'm a regular and they know me so have yet to be hassled about that. Regarding folding with the aero bar, rotating the bar down would be most compact, but that is blocked by all the cables, so I rotate the whole handlebar up (old Dahon stem, need to remove the small screw that limits rotation, and that works, but the aero bar will drag on the ground if I don't tip the bike back onto the rear (stable due to the rear rack). Your bike, with an adjustable stem, you can just shorten the stem and it will fold fine with the aero bars. Oh, and for most compact fold, I remove the forearm supports. I don't need to fold my bike frequently.

Duragrouch

Just curious, the shipping box for the Zizzo and others similar, is that box within the airline checked-bag max combined linear dimension of 62"(?) (length+width+height) I'm hoping so, so if I travel, I can get a box from a dealer here, and if touring, don't need to stash, just recycle, and then make arrangements to get a second box for the return trip.

edwong3

That's a good question and I am sorry that I don't have the answer. You might want to call the dealer and ask about airline compliant bike containers, especially for a folding bicycle. Maybe a box like the one my bike came in might work. And let me tell you that my Zizzo's box is robust. It's a box within a box actually and added quite a bit to the stated shipping weight. I almost don't want to get rid of it because it is in excellent shape and can be repurposed if anything.

Good luck and I hope you get your inquiry answered.

Edward

Duragrouch

(above) Just found online, posted by Zizzo:

https://euromini.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...-shipping-box-

The shipping box size for the 20" wheeled folding bike is 34" x 14" x 28"

That adds up to 76 linear inches total, which is way above airline max spec of 62". So... nope.

My Dahon Speed should squash down small enough, with only slight disassembly, unbolting the tall (not original) rear rack and nesting it low on the rear wheels. Smaller side view if I take the wheels off and put them beside the frame, but then that increases the width a lot. Hmm, Dahon's own folded dimensions provide a total of 67.3", and that's not even counting any box. I'm gonna have to play with schemes of taking the seat and possibly handlebar stem off, see how compact that packs, and perhaps just a box with the wheels and racks, and another with the folded frame and fork separate, which should be about 24" x 17", which is 41", that leaves 21" for the width, which should be plenty to fit the frame, seatpost, seat, and handlebar and stem. I'd rather bring the latter onboard, more value than the wheels, but the seatpost might be viewed as a potential weapon, so probably the wheels onboard in a bifold garment bag, along with panniers, and the frame and parts through checked baggage. What a pain. The folder on the train was so simple. But the seats were not comfortable, a half-day on the train was the max I could do.

edwong3

I thought that the shipping box would be too big to be counted as regular luggage. Usually, I've seen people who travel with a 20-inch folder, have to do partial disassembly in order to pack it into regulation size baggage. I mean, look at Bikefriday owners travel with their bikes. Some 16-inch folders such as the Brompton, don't need to be disassembled except maybe pull out the seatpost if it has the extra long version. Citizenbike has the Rome which is a sweet looking 16 incher that can be bought with an airline regulation suitcase and doesn't need to be disassembled. The bonus with that bike is that it weighs only 20 lbs. but it only has one gear in the form of a belt drive.

I wish you the best of luck in finding a good solution for your bike.

Edward

Duragrouch

(above) 16" wheels are out; That would require an Internal Gear Hub, and I don't want the drawbacks of that. Otherwise I think I would be looking at a Brompton for travel. My infrequent-folding 20" is perfect for around town and a trip by train, especially with full panniers. If Bromptons were cheaper, or if I flew often, I'd get one just for air trips. But neither of those things is true, so still gonna try to make do with my 20" folder. EDIT: A Brompton with a 9-36, 7 speed or greater cluster, might work as a travel bike.

cat0020

I take my folding bike onto the subway a few times a week.
For the last 5 years, it has been a SunRace folding bike I bought from Nashbar for $250.

Aluminum frame, 8 speed, mechanical disc brakes, nothing fancy, just gets me from point A to B, very dependable and easy to carry.
I most fold it only when I need to put it in the car trunk/hatchback.
I cut the handlebar to be narrow, so I can easily fit between car mirrors in NYC traffic, also take up less space when folded.


Recently, I bought another 20" folding bike from FB Marketplace for $150:

No particular name brand, aluminum frame, 8 speed, mechanical disc brakes, easier to fold,
feels lighter than my previous SunRace that's 5 years old, which now I keep as a spare bike.

Because of the low cost of these folding bikes, I rarely even lock them when I run errands, just fold it up,
take off the seatpost/seat and carry the seat/seatpost with me into the store, no one seems to bother to steal these cheap folding bikes.

edwong3

OK. I see that you wish to stay with 20 inch and wide range gearing. So that means that if you want to travel with your Dahon, you'll have to learn how to pack it into a standard size suitcase. Here are a couple of videos that I hope can help you to see what is possible.



Hope this helps.

Edward

P.S. As for any content related to my Zizzo, nothing new. I am waiting for the weather to improve a bit so that I can enjoy a ride.

momoman

Last year I started to modify my Zizzo Liberte which I bought from Costco in 2019 in the mid-$300 range. I spent quite a bit of time researching what was possible and wanted to convert it to a 1x10. I bought the Zizzo so I could hide it in the trunk when I drive out of town to visit my children and take it out to get some exercise early in the mornings. Well, life got in the way and I had so many things happen I never had time to continue modifying the bike.

I did modify it with earlier last year with the following parts:

• Brooks Cambium C13 saddle with carbon rails - I had this seat in my spare parts bin
• Litepro Aero aluminum wheels - bought from Aliexpress
• Schwalbe One 1-1/8" tires
• Ridenow TPU inner tubes
• Ergon GP5 handlebar grips
• Strap on bottle cage - I like the water bottle higher up
• Garmin mounts so I can use my Garmin computer and Varia radar tail lamp from my road bike

I bought a few parts from Aliexpress but haven't installed the parts yet. Among the parts were:

• Detachable flat/SPD pedals
• Bolany 170mm Crankset and BB
• Litepro 52T Chainring
• Litepro Brakes
• Rockbros carbon kickstand

On the future shopping list:

• 10 speed indexed RD
• 10 speed thumb shifter

The bike is currently under 23 lbs. I shaved about a pound with the new wheels and lighter tires and inner tubes. The grips added weight but provide more comfort and the ability to ride in a more aero position. I use the bike to ride 1-2 hrs when I'm traveling to visit my children. I don't need extreme low gears and want to maintain a 15-18 mph pace or so.

Modified with Brooks saddle, Ergon grips, Litepro aluminum wheels with Schwalbe One tires and Ridenow TPU tubes.

Last year I rode up some 8% grades in San Francisco to get to the Golden Gate Bridge. Next time I'll ride across the bridge.

The new wheels are much lighter and narrower.

Some of the parts I purchased from Aliexpress but haven't installed yet.

Duragrouch

(above) Edward, thanks for the thoughts. I KNOW I can fit my 20" in a legal suitcase. I'm a retired mechanical engineer and my superpower is 3D packaging. The problem is, if not traveling to somewhere I will be based, I have to figure some place to stash the suitcase while I'm touring. So I'm hoping to devise packaging that either collapses small, or is disposable/recyclable and can be easily replaced for the return trip.

Duragrouch

First, #1: NASHBAR!!! I miss their deals, especially over winters, they really cleared out stock.

2: I'm astonished you have not had your folder frame stolen, especially NYC. I no longer chain mine outside when shopping, thieves now have grinders that will cut through in seconds. I had my trashed-condition early Dahon 3 speed stolen that way. These are not pro thieves, they are homeless, some addicts, hoping to sell any bike, any part. I am sympathetic but I need my bike and have invested a ton of time in mods to make it work great. I bring my folder inside, however mine is a big pain to fold with the panniers and all accessories, it's only an "occasional folder". They just let me wheel the bike through. You should try it.

3: Handlebars. Mine on the Dahon are pretty wide. The local bike shop with used parts had a bike friday H bar for sale, I tried it, the verticals were way too close together. Then I realized, they were no closer together than my old road bars, about 40cm. Thus, I came to realize that the Dahon mountain bike length straight bars, with bar ends (those seem to be rare these days) is far more comfortable for me, than typical road width, if less aerodynamic. But I also have clip-on aero-bars for wind, and to take load off my hands. But with less bar width, I don't have space for the aeros, forearm pads, brake levers, grip shifts, grips, and bar ends.

momoman

edwong3,
I understand your excitement with the Liberte! I was also tempted to buy a Brompton but I don't travel with my bike and don't need it to fold down too small. I just need a decent bike that fits inside my trunk without taking up too much space. I was surprised how smooth the stock bike rode. The only problem I have is with some ghost shifting. When I'm mashing on the pedals the derailleur sometimes shifts by itself. I haven't had time to try adjusting the cable lengths to tighten up the shifting performance, but I plan to switch the rear derailleur in the future to a 10 speed model.

Duragrouch

momoman,

Congrats on the mods. Just be aware, 1-1/8" tires, and most especially on deep section rims and 20" diameter with tremendous hoop stiffness and strength, mean there is very little radial elasticity in that system. Just to prevent pinch-flats on an unexpected pothole, those tires will need to be aired-up. A really big smash may still go past the tires and flatten the rim near the bead, though probably not affect the rim as a whole. There are cases with 700c bikes with deep section aeros where the front wheel ran into something, and the whole fork bent before the wheel did.

What I would like to find, I don't think exists, is 20"/406 rims, double-wall, but with "double-rivets/eyelets", that have the spoke nipple pull on both inner and outer wall, that improves fatigue strength tremendously, no radial cracks at the spoke holes over time. This is a common design on proven-for-decades touring rims. But it does add weight, and exactly where you don't want, at the wheel rim, so increases rotational inertia. If not that, a double wall rim with the inner wall extra-thick at the nipple, and perhaps me also adding small steel washers under the nipples to spread loads out more. What's my name?

On my Cannondale racer, after wearing out 2 sets of wheels over 6 years (at over 7,000 miles a year, would have been more except for snowy winters) due to a crack at the spoke hole, and the cost of replacements, I then bought a good set of double-socketed rims (great winter price on Nashbar!) and fit 32mm tires (I had to just dust the aft part of the front derailleur with a file for the tires to clear), and that improved both ride and durability. I still have that bike and wheels, just haven't ridden it in 18 years, as I need a townie and panniers now.

edwong3

Wow! Momoman, what can I say. Your post says it all so I can't really add anything except, Bikefriday Pocket Rocket, eat your heart out!

On my end, I have a carbon fiber road saddle on order and plan to get the removable pedals sold on Zizzo's website. I should be able to knock off close to 1/3 lb. or so on the bike (not that it'll make a huge difference).







Nice modifications and you got the bike to weight just under the factory spec. Looks fast and fun. Enjoy!
Edward

edwong3

I like the frame of that Sunrace. Good price for that bike from Nashbar. They went out of business, am I right? Anyway, I have also purchased from Performancebike and Jenson USA which also have some good deals from time to time.

Thanks for posting, enjoy your bikes.
Eddward

cat0020

Yeah Nashbar, been shopping with them since early 90's, most of my bike tubes are bought from them when they go on sale.
I bought two SunRace folding bikes at close out prices, one neon orange with disc brakes
and another neon green with linear pull brakes.


Most of the stops I make in Brooklyn & Manhattan have bicycle rack that
I can put my folding bike among other more valuable bikes,
therefore, my cheap folding bike without seat & seatpost are less likely to attract attention from thieves.
Sometime, when I just have to run into the building for a few minutes
I lock both brakes with rubber bands; so thief can't just walk off or ride off with my bike.
If I now I would require more time in a building, I also fold up the frame and walk the bike into the building,
most of the building in the city are cool with that.

Aerobar on folding bike.. that's an interesting commuter.


After getting my Bike Friday Tikit hit by SUV back in 2016,
I've just been going with cheap folding bikes for commute.
That way, I don't feel so bad when bike gets damaged or stolen.


For a while I commuted on a Citizen folding bike,
I loaned it out to a co-worker so they can commute on it and quit smoking.
Another bicycling convert he became.


The SunRace I purchased back in 2017. I liked the idea of mechanical disc brakes on a folding bike.
No worry about the wheels can damaged with potholes and have brake pads rub on the rims.
Long ago, I got a carbon seatpost for it, weighs about 1/3 of the original seatpost.
It had been used & abused in snow, salt & rain, but served me well over the last 5 years and showing its age.
The more dirt caked on the bike, the less it attract theft.




The SunRace is still my backup bike for commute.
The utility aspect of folding bike just makes sense in the city commute that have public transportation that allow folding bikes to get on & off easily.
Before the pandemic, a neighbor of mine and I got to chatting about folding bikes,
he saw me a few times on mine and was interested in them.
At the time I was on my Citizen folding bike, he asked me about Zizzo,
I was not familiar with the brand, but I told him how I use my folding bike.
He was thankful for my thoughts. I never found out if he bought a Zizzo or not.

momoman

The rims on my Litepro Aero wheels are too narrow for what I want but the wheels were under $100 and I didn't want to spend more, plus the selection of 406 tires is limited. To be honest, I got the wheels for the look and not for practicality. I do inflate the tires to 100+ lbs and carry 2-3 Ridenow TPU tubes since 3 tubes take about the same space as a single 20" butyl tube. On my road bikes, i've pretty much progressed from 23mm to 25, then 28mm or 32mm. When I rode to the Golden Gate bridge the final few hundred feet was on gravel, as shown in my picture. The narrow road tires made it but I had to concentrate to keep the bike from sliding. I'm glad the gravel was dry. My slick tires would not have made it safely if the ground was wet. I think I will ride the aero wheels on known local streets and bike trails, but go with the stock wheels and tires when I carry the bike out of town and ride on unfamiliar roads, or get caught on wet grounds.

Duragrouch

That's a fantastic deal on those wheels. No deal that good on amazon. I have not shopped aliexpress, looking now, I do see similar deal, $91+$41 shipping. I'm still wary about spreading my credit card number all over the globe, I'll have to check with others about ali. I liked it decades ago when I had an AMEX card and could get a different, one-time charge number for every transaction if I wanted, made remote transactions safer.

I really want to wait on a wheel upgrade until I get a bike that uses discs.

edwong3

Duragrouch

"I'm still wary about spreading my credit card number all over the globe."

You might be able to pay for your purchase on Alexpress via Paypal. That way your credit card will not be revealed to any of the vendors. I have purchased several items from there and as far as I can remember, never used my debit or credit card to complete the transaction.

Edward

PaulJensen

john m flores 

That's awesome and possibly the only Zizzo/Campagnolo mashup in the world!

Duragrouch

That is one *b!tchin'* looking bike! That front hub looks narrow, is that 100mm standard or 74mm like on Dahons without discs? Also, your front axle (anti-theft) bolts on each side... do those thread onto the outside of the QR axle, or still use a skewer that passes thru the axle? I ask because I've come to prefer nutted axles in recent years over quick release, as bearing adjustment is vastly easier, I can adjust it perfect and just put it on, whereas a QR compresses the whole axle so will then be too tight; need to leave some slack in bearings, then check after on bike, but I still get a better bearing adjust when I can turn the spindle to check adjustment, rather than rotate the rim, as the latter has vastly more leverage.

PaulJensen

The hub bolts on with the supplied hex head bolts from Phil…

The rims are stock Zizzo Liberte… The spokes were cut from the stock hubs
then the dark anodization was sanded off…. The new wheels were built by Corey Thompson in Olympia…

The rear hub is a triple sealed bearing unit from e-bay… Very quiet…