John_V 

Bill,

One of the local shops that I go to is a Cannondale, Masi, Colnago, Scott, Fuji, Kuota, Pinarello and Kestrel dealer. All these gorgeous bikes under one roof. I can't go in there anymore without leaving with the N+1 virus. They have this Colnago Ace that has my name on it. There is another bike shop that I go to for my fittings that has a Bianchi Infinuto that also has my name on it. The bug is there! Now which one do I want?

NOS88

Some might suggest there is an inconsistency between these two.

BigAura

recreational riding and occasional light tour = Sam Hillborne

pace lines = Roubaix

N + 1 = yes

PatKendall

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts. Been looking at stuff on the internet for weeks, but but this is much more helpful.

FYI, My rear end is extremely happy on my Brooks B17.

Racer Ex 

Nah. Unless you sit on your shifters then maybe. Or use your saddle to shift.

Takeaway looks and weight and some of the all carbon saddles out these days are identical to many Brooks in design parameters. No padding, use a flexible layer of material to provide comfort. Functionally they are identical. And Specialized took a page from them and started offering different widths in the same model.

The bar end comment was more about having everything at your fingertips with STI. OP didn't go looking for bar ends, or down tube shifters for that matter, both of which are retro chic while he seems more concerned with practical matters.

And just an FYI on comfort, a few years ago I was a crash test dummy in some fork (blind) testing. The two most comfortable forks were a Specialized Roubaix and (wait for it) an old school chromoly job.

AzTallRider

The "Zertz" inserts Specialized uses in the Roubaix are apparently more than marketing hype, as the Roubaix wins comfort oriented tests, both road and lab. And I'm betting the chromoly fork has that nice classic bend, which, along with a taper, provides some damping.

NOS88

It's been decades since I sat on my shifters.

BluesDawg

...but I frequently shift on my saddle.

stapfam

The Roubaix is one bike that is noted for comfort. The longer headtube helps in this but the bike is "Probably" the most comfortable performance bike out there.

But Bike set up is the critical factor.

I made a few mistakes with my first road bike 6 years ago. Frame one size too small- and to alleviate back and neck pain--I raised the bars to just above the saddle.

For my body--that was wrong. As I found out with my second bike- I prefer a longer stretched out ride position and the bars were 4" below the saddle. Next bike and I went for some comfort and set the bars level with the saddle but have gradually adjusted the height--To be 4" below the saddle. So I would suggest that Fit is possibly one of the critical factors.

And on neck ache--This took some training after 16 years of MTB's and at the gym I put my neck through some mobility tests. I did not have the movement I thought I should have so gentle weights for a few sessions and my neck loosened up and had more mobility. The other thing I did was take the visor off my MTB helmet so I did not have to raise my head quite so much to look under it.

PatKendall

Stamfam, that's interesting. To me it's counter-intuitive, though I have not doubt that its worked for you. Thanks for the input.

Let me ask this. If the fitting is done "right," is it safe to assume that a higher handlebar will result in less stress on the neck and shoulders? Seems logical and I've gotten some relief as we've tweaked the fit and raised the bar.

PatKendall

I finally had a chance to go to your blog. Great stuff. Beautiful bike. Thanks!

I'm a "overthinker" by nature. Actually I often enjoy the "chase" as much or more than the "catch." I'm lovin' all I'm learnin' about Riv bikes, alternatives, fitting, etc.

AzTallRider

Not a safe enough assumption to rely on. My bars are lower than ever, and I just did a fast century with no neck or shoulder issues. I used to have them on the long rides. Most of the difference, though, is fitness. The only "safe" approach is to set something up and ride it for hours, which is why I suggested you use whatever means are necessary to get the bars on your Roubaix even higher, and ride like that for awhile before taking the N+1 plunge as a means to solving your neck/shoulder issues. Otherwise you could find yourself with a beautiful new bike, but the same physical issues. I have come to the belief that how stretched out you are is a huge factor in the whole neck/shoulder thing; stretched out being better than hunched up. The Roubaix has a fairly long top tube. The current 'trend' is towards being stretched out - watch the Tour Down Under currently underway, and you will see what I mean. It's fast, and also generally confortable, especially if you ride reasonably fast, which takes weight off your hands, and generally relaxes your upper body.

stapfam

Works not only for me- but for a lot of the experienced riders here. Main problem for most of us is backache and by taking the "Vertical" strain off the vertebrae- it works.



Above are of the two bikes and you can see the Black bike has the bars up to saddle height.

But the Main part for comfort (Neck and back)-was getting that longer Lower position. Admittedly that first bike was one size too small- but to get comfort I raised the bars and extended them away a bit with a new stem. It was never really comfortable. Next bike and the shop set it up and told me to ride it. Did a 5 mile ride up a hill and went back to the shop to adjust a few things. They had set the bike up after seeing me ride the old one--They knew what I needed.

BUT--Test ride a few bikes. Try the lower longer position- Try what you think is right- One of them will work.

In fact you can try it on the Roubaix you now have--Flip the stem to get a lower position-Or take spacers out and try it.

curdog

I bought a Sam last year. Mostly ride recreationally, but did tour the C & O and the Allegeny this past Fall. Great bike. I really like the bar ends. It took a while getting accustomed, but after a while, they were very comfortable. The pay off for bar ends is that they are usually much easier to work on than STI if you're out in Timbukto with no paddle.

PatKendall

AzTallRider and stapfam, I went by the bike shop today. They are going to continue to work with me on the Roubaix. I'm going to give the Roubaix as much time as I need. Thanks for your help!

PatKendall

Congrats on the Sam. Glad it's working out for you. Just curious about the bar end shifters. Now that you've gotten used to them, do you prefer them over the STI type? Are you comfortable with them when you're in close proximity to other riders--drafting, etc.? Thanks!

curdog

I don't ride too often in organized pace lines. I really can't say I prefer them to brifters. All I'm saying is that they don't make me feel unsafe and their simplicity of design is important in touring. If I was going to spend the majority of my time in pace lines or racing, brifters would be my choice.
By the way, don't forget that the Riv csan be built to your spec. If you want brifters, I'm sure Grant would be quick to accomodate.

Velo Fellow

Brifters vs. bar-ends? Considering that many here began riding when down tube shifters were most common....I wonder how many can attribute crashes to reaching back for the bar-ends to shift. I ride with brifters as well as bar-ends and find I just slip into a different shifting mode for each. Certanly the brifters are more convenient, but not monumentally so.

Ignoring the steel vs. carbon frame thing, a real issue here is contemporary headsets vs. older style threaded. With a threaded headset, the OP can simply get an ever longer quil/shorter or longer extension right on up to a gooseneck that will reset the angle of his back (and, perhaps uncomfortably so, throw more weight onto his butt.) Rivendell does offer that option on their bikes......a concrete possibility that goes beyond just retro-panache.

PatKendall

That's helpful. Thanks. When I talked to Riv, they told me they could outfit the bike with brifters, but it would "defeat the purpose." I take it that's about reliability, simplicity, cost, etc. of the barends.

PatKendall

Thanks for the help and perspective on the the shifters.

The LBS just ordered a stem for my Roubaix to put me up a little higher. $60...about what the older style Nitto stems sell for. Either way, it ain't cheap.

BluesDawg

...and style/philosophy. Rivendell's niche is high quality bikes that do not follow the latest trends, continuing to use good older technology that didn't stop being good when the mainstream market left it behind. Not surprising they would be reluctant to put brifters on their bikes, but there are many out there that do have them. The term "retrogrouch" was coined to describe Grant Petersen back in his days with Bridgestone.

I have been a fan of GP since the early 90s when I became a charter member of the Bridgestone Owner's Bunch (BOB). It was cool when I would call to order something from the BOB Gazzette (which evolved into the Rivendell Reader) and Grant himself would answer the phone and take the order, offering advice on my choices. He called me "the one from Georgia" after a couple of such calls. I didn't and still don't always follow his suggestions, but I doubt I would ever have experienced the joys of Brooks saddles and Suntour bar end shifters without his influence.

NOS88

+1 It's a poor assumption that all new technology is "better". My oldest son just recently learned this lesson with one of these:

Velo Fellow

Sentimental journey, Bluesdawg. BoB Member #1031 here. (Skip the secret handshake.) Grant immediately following the Bridgestone collapse was kool: I bought some great Mavic "old style" stuff from him, welcomed his advice, found a million uses for beeswax, and bought a sweet riding (still is) Romulus. Somewhere, Grant became very conscious of being a unique/boutique cycling source. The expensive plaid touring bags marked a turning point for me.

His core concept of siimplicity and function before complexity and obsolescence is still a good one. The OP is struggling to find a good fit for his own needs. One is left wondering if older style bikes and components, infinitely mixable albeit sometimes quirky, might have offered a greater range of options and an easier path to a fit. That said, I don't miss overshifting, 5 speed freewheels, or chasing loose ball bearings across the garage floor.

George

The stem has an insert in it and if you give that a half turn, that will put your bars above the saddle. When I had mine and played around with the adjustments, that would put my bars 2" above the saddle. After riding for a while and wanting to get more stretched out, I ended 2" below the saddle. I would keep what you have and play around with the adjustment. That Roubaix is a pretty comfortable bike.

BluesDawg