CrowSeph

Hello. The countdown has been started, this race is important because if the last of the regional championship. I need to archive at least 3rd position of category.
I need any kind of advice how to deal with a 10km climb done with full power.
- should i keep myself for about half way and the go full power?
- how you guys handle the shifting?
- wich cadence should i keep?

PeteHski

How steep is the climb? Do you have a profile of it? 10 km is a major climb. That could be anything up to an hour depending on the elevation gain. Basically an effort close to your FTP.

First thing I would do is take a look at the profile to see how the gradient varies. You want to put more power down on the steeper parts and a little less on the shallower gradients.

Gearing may be important too, again depending on the gradient and your power output.

Carbonfiberboy 

As above, but answering what I understand is your particular question, you could use the same power on the same gradient all the way up. However it's not easy to decide on how much power! That's why folks try to ride other, similar ascents if they can't pre-ride the course well in advance. Preferably pre-ride it like 3 times. Or just try to do a better job of it next year. My theory however is to hold the same HR all the way up, meaning that my power will decrease over a climb that long, but my physical stress will remain about the same. There's still the issue of figuring out what that HR should be. Cadence should be your conventional climbing cadence, whatever that is. Most folks are in the 75-85 range but there are wide variations. I prioritize cadence and shift as necessary to hold about the same cadence, assuming no wide variations in slope. Steeper slopes are usually better at slightly lower cadences since cadence uses oxygen. IMO.

tFUnK

Hard to answer without knowing full profile. If assuming consistent grade throughout, agree with the above: keep it near threshold and consistent effort throughout. At my weight there's no way I can keep 80rpm on a sustained climb even in my 34x32 low gear. Do what you can manage in terms of cadence but try to keep your HR consistent just under threshold. Shift as needed to maintain steady HR and cadence.

*corrected a typo

CrowSeph

Last year was 7km 220 diff in altitudine
the most hard trait is 6.3% 0.53kms 36m DIA
first trait seems to be in flatland , probably I'll go with full speed in that flat part.

Kai Winters

Ideally you will practice the climb in order to find your ideal cadence and power level. Or a similar climb in your area if you can't practice on the actual climb.
One can't maintain 'full power' for that long a time.
Cadence depends on training, practice, etc. to find the ideal cadence for your body and level of ability.
Generally a higher cadence and riding on the saddle is the most efficient but getting out of the saddle periodically changes muscle use and allows for more blood flow to the butt area and gives the chance to stretch but only for brief periods of time.

wheelreason

Competition day is not the time to try to figure out what you are going to be doing. You want to ride as fast as you can with little or no fading in the last couple of kilometers, and leave nothing for the locker room, The hard part is not to go over the line, that comes from experience. It's a bit macabre, but I always found motivation the limiting factor on the TT, so I pictured a loved one on one of those magician burning rope saw thing at the finish line, and I had to get there in time to save them,

tFUnK

To clarify, is this a hill climb TT or is this a hill climb section that's part of a longer route/race?

CrowSeph

HI'll climb tt, in Italian is cronoscalata (crono from chronometer and scalata meaning going uphill)

eduskator

Do like Pogy and switch bike at the bottom of the hill! No, wait, never mind, you'll lose the race.

PeteHski

The part where you want to go hardest (power wise) is the steepest 6.3% 0.53 km. I would go full gas on that part, VO2 max power territory if you are good at recovery just under threshold. Otherwise at least FTP. The problem with going full gas on the flatter part is that you will lose more time on the steeper part of the climb. Power needs to be measured in proportion to the gradient around your target overall average power. There are apps out there like Best Bike Splits to calculate the fastest time for a given course based on your FTP, weight, aero etc. I've used it many times for course profiles and it works well. It always calls for higher power on climbs, lower power on the flats and lowest power on downhills. Power on climbs is always proportional to gradient within your individual limits.

At 10 km you are going to want to target your FTP as an average power for the course, but target over FTP on the steeper parts and under FTP on the flatter parts. It doesn't sound like a particularly hard climb. More like a false flat with a short medium gradient section.

79pmooney

Don't go full power on the opening near flat! That's doing a lot of work for very little gain. You want to use your precious resources gaining altitude, not just disturbing air. Think of the hillclimb as an altitude gain challenge, not race for 8 km. You want to save your strength for those places where you gain altitude fast - the steepest stuff.


When I did the Mt Washington hill climb, I quite purposefully geared my bike with a ridiculously low high gear. When I got to the start of the clime after 0.8 km of flat, my starting partner was out of sight up the hill.

rsbob 

If you do not know, the FTP PeteHski is referring to is the highest power you can maintain for one hour. This does not mean going full gas at maximum power except as Pete says on the steeper parts. FTP is your sustainable highest power measured in Watts. If you don’t have a power meter for FTP, then use a heart rate monitor, they are cheap in comparison. Use an app like Strava to see what your power/heart rate zones are on similar climbs and use the data on your bike computer to tell you how hard to go which should also tell you have enough energy left to go ‘full gas’. Use technology.

buona gara

CrowSeph

Should I use the hr sensor in the race? Or do you think is an major error?
Almost every criterium I hot my max hr, but during training seems more hard to do. More hard to get is when I try to archive it. That's why I think may the hr can be an error due to go in an anxious mode.
Grazie

CrowSeph

Also what regarding the position, should I keep the hands on the lower part of the handlebar? (this way I'm half aero with the torso a bit inclined but still lowering my posture overall) , or going full aero with my hands on the hoods and 90° elbow? (this way I can be more aero as I can whiteout compressing my diaphragm and blocking my respiration).

Ps. I hope is understandable but I'm running low on battery. I'm typing without inspect what I text. Feel free to correct me.

rsbob 

You SHOULD use your HR sensor if you do not have a power meter, I found this heart rate calculator most accurate HR Calc

The majority of your climb should be in the HARD level (flats and most of climb) with your final push to the finish at VERY HARD. Don’t be tempted to go into the VERY HARD level even if you feel you have the energy until the last 1000 meters.

Quanti anni hi?

rsbob 

Full aero on the flats either on the drops (lowest bars) or on the hoods with forearms parallel to bar tops, with back flat. Typically on climbs, people are on the bar tops or the hoods to aid breathing unless it is a minor %. Like the pros, stand up when sprinting for the finish.

You need to train with your HR monitor to see if the suggested levels for training and racing are right for you

There are very experienced racers here that can give you excellent advice as well.

CrowSeph

Perfect. Sound like I must keep a Z3 on the flat part .
Do you recommend any particular heart zone on the light climb section?
and then maximum effort on final part.

rsbob 

Positano? Amalfi?

You need to practice ride at those zones to see how you feel and what you have left for the finish. I was thinking zone 4 for flats and majority of climb and 5 for the finale

CrowSeph

At the flatland I can keep 4.5 forever and need feel tired, even if I do some explosive climb before.
(I can share some data from Strava)
But during climb I noticed, if I keep z4.5 after a while my hr increase automatically and after a while is common to feel my legs hard.
Should I practice and see how much I can keep 4.5 during climb?

PeteHski

I would use it. A TT is completely different to a crit race, where HR is typically all over the place and not of much practical use in the moment. You are not trying to hit your max HR on a TT. You are trying to stay in the right zone with a measured effort. The HR calculator rsbob linked to looks pretty good based off your max HR. If you know your LTHR, that’s even more accurate, but Z4 on this calculator is probably where you need to be for most of the climb.

Just remember that HR lags your effort, so on a long climb you have to check your HR after maybe the first 5 mins and then adjust your pace accordingly and keep checking. On a climbing TT like this I would be looking to stay very close to my LTHR (top of Z4 in that calculator).

The adrenaline rush at the start will make your effort feel too easy at first and without a power meter I guarantee you will be over-cooking it. So consciously hold yourself back until your HR settles down and has stabilised, which will take at least 5 mins. It’s better to be conservative at the start as there is plenty of time to empty the tank further up the hill if you did go out a bit too easy. Then keep checking your HR every few minutes to stay on track.

PeteHski

Definitely! Without seeing the actual course profile it’s hard to say, but in general I would ride the flats in Z4 and the climbs in Z5 on a 10 km course.

CrowSeph

Stats from today ride.
in a group ride we start act like racing, me and another guy decided to go on fugitive mode. Everything seems going okay except while at one point as my instinct told me to go off saddle I lost a lot of speed and cadence. But otherwise if I don't do my legs start getting hard. I do something wrong but still I can figure what to manage. Maybe focusing more on cadence?

Here what the route was like:

There are three points, let's call them A,B,C.
From A to B is only climbing with 3.3km with 4.2% 136 ele.
The other one is A to C , basically is the entire climb (A to B) plus some negative elevation gain and a bit of climb in the final. A to C is 9.40km 1.8% with 184 elevation gain.

​​​​here my results

Road is located north direction, we had side wind from WN at 4kmh and some trait almost zero.

Speed:
A to B 25kmh
A to C 29.1kmh

Here my hr graph

Here my cadence graph

At this point here the speed one too


​​​​​it was a very short ride. But does not matter.
wHat do you guys think? I'm doing something wrong?
Any advice is gold

rsbob 

Do you have the elevation gain profile too?

CrowSeph

Here it is