tcs

N.A. (and perhaps others) small wheelers, stop me if you've heard this: Soma fab is inventorying Capreo-compatible Sunrace cassettes now. 9 speed, 9-28T.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/590...IP0k#attr=4801

tds101 

Oh, that's a nice cassette... Too bad the S&H is so expensive.

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Ron Damon

Aye, but the question that arises (in my mind, at least) is: Why? Why choose a higher-price 9-28T Capreo cogset with 311% range requiring a proprietary hub carrier with the increased inefficiency and accelerated wear of a 9T cog, when one can choose a less expensive, regular 11-36T cogset with 327% range, no funky or proprietary parts and improved efficiency and reduced wear of a 11T cog? 🤔

For example, this Shimano CS-HG50-10, 11-36T part sells for less than $30.



Similarly, a Shimano CS-HG400-9, 11-36T sells for under $20.

Finally, something to keep in mind is that folders, particularly the 16" species, tend to have shorter chain stays. The chain stays on my FnHon Gust 16", for example, are a mere only 33cm. Those on the 102cm wheelbase FnHon Storm 20", only 40cm. This means that the chain angle will always be more oblique than on regular sized bikes, which will translate into greater inefficiency and wear on the innermost and outermost cogs. This is less of a problem on the biggest cog where friction and wear is spread over more cog teeth and chain links, but it will really bite you hard on the small cog. For this reason, one will want to avoid a 9T cog on a short-chainstay bike.
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In 2023, Capreo is an obsolete anachronism, imo.

tds101 

Yeah, I can definitely see your point. That 9T cog will wear down pretty fast. And once it's gone, it's gone.

Jipe

Because on small wheel bikes, to have high enough gear inches with a cassette+derailleur transmission (not an IGH), there are only two choices:
- either use a very big chainring.
- either use a cassette with a 9t or 10t smallest cog.

For instance the equivalent of 52tx9t (7.9m on the Riese&Müller Birdy Touring) with a 11t smallest cog is 64tx11t.

Even if possible without causing problems for the folding, a 64t chainring is not nice to have on a folding bike!

Sometime, people should consider the technical requirements of small wheels bikes instead of only looking at the lowest price!

tcs

To get the range of that 9x28, you'll need an 11x34. The 34 will need a derailleur with a longer cage. The longer cage will hang down further.

But I'm still not following you. Somebody has a Capreo-pattern rear hub on their folder. Shimano discontinued the cassettes. Now there's a convenient source for replacement/spares. Are you suggesting they rebuild a rear wheel with a new hub, buy a different derailleur, fit a huge front chainring...to save money on the cassette? No, seriously, I've missed your point. Could you re-explain?

Ron Damon

The points, plural, which should be obvious from reading my original post are as follows:

• Capreo harks back to a time when wide-range cogsets and RD capable of spanning them were relatively few or altogether non-existent. Conditions today have changed, with the easy availability and low cost of 11-36T cogsets (and upwards) and RD like the Shimano Zee and the Microshift Shorty. It is now possible, indeed relatively easy to get greater range from a cogset than one would get from a Capreo 9-28T without worries about low-hanging, vulnerable RD. They have become non-issues.
• For reasons of efficiency, wear/durability and proprietary parts, Capreo was never a great idea. It was a necessary expediency back in the day. It's even a worse idea today.

As one who routinely rides a 16" (ISO305) folder, has ridden one for years, and has toured on one in both First-World andThird-World conditions and terrains, including literal cross-country hauls, I am fairly confident in saying that I know about low-hanging RD and range. As one who literally builds his own bikes, I am intimately aware of what it takes to build, re-build and specc a bike. Now, if you are already invested in Capreo already, by all means, go ahead and buy those cogsets as replacements. But if you are not invested in it, there are several good reasons (I've outlined them now twice) to stay away. And if you are chasing top-end speed with a folder, with an inefficient double-suspension (ISO355 or ISO406) folder, with an inefficient 9T cog, your judgement is suspect, no matter how expensive, hallowed and revered your bike is, no matter how much coin you dropped on it.

50PlusCycling

Capreo components are highly regarded in Japan, which is arguably the world’s top market for folding bikes. NOS Capeo cassettes sell for more than $100, so these Sunrace cassettes will be very welcome to the Japanese market.

I ran a Capreo cassette with a Dura Ace 7700 derailleur and XTR 9 speed shifters on my Moulton. This setup gave me a significant increase in the top end compared to the 11-28 Dura Ace cassette I am now running. My only complaint about the cassette was that it was quite heavy for its size, and it was fast-wearing.

john m flores 

Do you really think that there are people out there who don't currently have Capreo but are now considering it because of this new announcement and will now seek out Capreo hubs and build wheels?

This is clearly for people who already have Capreo and are looking for affordable replacement parts.

Jipe

Its clear that Capreo is now obsolete and that this announcement is only for people having a Capreo equipped bike and need to replace their cassette.

For people needing high enough gear inches on a small wheel (folding or not) bike, there is the XD or XDR freewheel body and wide range 11s cassettes from E-thirteen with 9-34 to 9-46 or 12s up to 9-50.

Helix Superlight is for instance using this solution.

SRAM has several cassettes starting with a 10t cog for road bikes and MTB with the advantage to use smaller chainring with a smaller teeth difference on double chainring crankset.

Shimano has the microspline freewheel body with wide range cassettes starting at 10t.

Campagnolo has the Ekar group with wide range cassettes starting at 9t .

For remembrance, Shimano developed the Capreo group for small wheels bike, not to have a wide range. The reason why Capreo is popular in Japan is because Japanese like small wheels bike.

tds101 

And this alone means it's something I should avoid.

Darth Lefty 

And for those people the shipping charge is probably not an issue

People are still watching IRD for threaded freewheels too even though they apparently are getting worse and worse

Scott Mc

Thank you tcs!

Just found your post and discovered the link to Sunrace Capreo compatible cassettes. Halelujah! I immediately bought three and they've been delivered. So happy. I was on my last Shimano cassette and looking at soon having to tear my wheel apart and install something less optimal. These new cassettes look great. Hope they wear as well as the originals.

An observation from a 20 year user of a Capreo hub: I think I've worn out 2 or 3 cassettes so far, but the 9-tooth has never worn out on me. Other cogs went always first. I expect that's because the other gears are used much more. The 9T gets used mostly on downhills at 25+ mph. It gets used regularly, but much less than the other gears. I always keep the pedals rolling going downhill and I seldom stand up or sprint on it. If you're using your highest gear all the time, you need a different set-up. Without the 9 tooth, I probably would red line my own personal RPMs to pedal at 25+ mph. FYI, My Capreo is on a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket with 20" wheels. With the 9 tooth, my high gear is 115 gear inches.

Note: If you buy 2, (and given the fact that they may never appear again, why not?) the total price gets you free shipping.

Have to agree with the others who posted about the practicality of this hub. Without this weird hub, you have to get even weirder with everything else, (derraileurs, chainwheels, etc.) Not that you can get the hubs anymore. BTW, If anyone wants to get rid of an old Capreo in good condition, please let me know...

Jipe

Same experience with 9t cog: its to obtain a high enough gear inch when riding very fast but its not used often so higher wear and lower efficiency aren't issues.

The solution I use is SRAM XD freewheel with Ethirteen cassette and the best one is the 3T made by Ethirteen bailout 9-32 cassette because it has: 9-10-11-12-13-15-17-19-22-26-32 i.e. the 5 first cogs are spaced by 1 tooth while the Ethirteen jump from 9t to 11t without 10t.

splithub

..you mean the hub?

What about NOS? It's the leftover from a box of hubs i bought when Taobao was worldwide, and got them for less than one buck each. It was the times i started liking folders and wasn't sure which route to take. Capreo disc hubs are cheaply available new from more than one online shop here (in germany)

Scott Mc

Splithub
Looks like I'm not allowed to either send or receive private messages. How about e-mailing me at spamystery9608@gmail.com?

Scott Mc

Capreo disc sounds great. Tired of wearing out rims with rim braking, but the ones I see online have 135 mm locknut spacing, and my frame is a tight 130 mm.

Jipe

130mm rear OLD is the race road bike OLD for bikes with rim brakes. There is no standardized 130mm OLD for disc brakes.

135mm is the MTB rear OLD standardized both for rim brakes (mainly V-brakes but its possible to use caliper brakes with narrow tires) or disc brakes.

So its normal that there is no 130mm Capreo rear hub for disc brakes.