Modern Steel Road Bike Appreciation Thread
01-21-16, 03:38 PM
#176
Senior Member
Some extremely high-end TIG-welded racing frames with thin-walled tubing are much lighter than what vintage bikes can offer.
But it's kind of hard to pull that off when they've made the tubes skinny for aesthetic reasons. Modern steel permits good strength with extremely thin walls, but without making the tubes wider, this results in the bike riding like a wet noodle. Since the Phantom has chosen to use a classical-ish tube width, they're probably using thicker walls to keep the ride quality good, substantially compromising the weight savings that modern steel offers.
The lugs probably aren't helping with the weight either.
But it's kind of hard to pull that off when they've made the tubes skinny for aesthetic reasons. Modern steel permits good strength with extremely thin walls, but without making the tubes wider, this results in the bike riding like a wet noodle. Since the Phantom has chosen to use a classical-ish tube width, they're probably using thicker walls to keep the ride quality good, substantially compromising the weight savings that modern steel offers.
The lugs probably aren't helping with the weight either.
01-21-16, 03:52 PM
#177
Senior Member
A top-end steel racing frame with a priority on light weight should land below 3lb.
According to the blog post, the Jaegher frame weighs 2000g, a little heavier than your frame.
Just sub-4lb frames are pretty common. Mine weighs 3.9lbs with "skinny" tubing and certainly is not a floppy noodle. How much does the Jaegher weigh?
Last edited by HTupolev; 01-21-16 at 04:11 PM.
01-21-16, 03:57 PM
#178
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No, Doug Curtis of Curtlo Cycles in Winthrop, WA:
.Curtlo Cycles - Handmade bicycles. Custom Mountain Bike, Road, Cyclocross, Tandem bikes
.Curtlo Cycles - Handmade bicycles. Custom Mountain Bike, Road, Cyclocross, Tandem bikes
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Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
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01-21-16, 03:58 PM
#179
Vain, But Lacking Talent
Some extremely high-end TIG-welded racing frames with thin-walled tubing are much lighter than what vintage bikes can offer.
But it's kind of hard to pull that off when they've made the tubes skinny for aesthetic reasons. Modern steel permits good strength with extremely thin walls, but without making the tubes wider, this results in the bike behaving like a wet noodle. Since the Phantom has chosen to use a classical-ish tube width, they're probably using thicker walls to keep things stiff, substantially compromising the weight savings that modern steel offers.
The lugs probably aren't helping with the weight either.
But it's kind of hard to pull that off when they've made the tubes skinny for aesthetic reasons. Modern steel permits good strength with extremely thin walls, but without making the tubes wider, this results in the bike behaving like a wet noodle. Since the Phantom has chosen to use a classical-ish tube width, they're probably using thicker walls to keep things stiff, substantially compromising the weight savings that modern steel offers.
The lugs probably aren't helping with the weight either.
01-21-16, 04:13 PM
#181
Senior Member
Perhaps, but I've never actually seen a sub 3lb frame. Cinelli XCR is just a shade over 3lb for example. The Rodriguez people claim to have frames as light as 2.2lbs but admit that you should expect their frame to come in at 3lbs. Sub 3lbs is rare IMHO.
01-21-16, 04:20 PM
#182
Senior Member
Where did Rodriguez say that? I just tried to search their stuff, and the closest thing I found was a comment they made about where alloy racing frames tend to fall.
(And on the same page, they claimed that they've been making steel frames comfortably under 3lb.)
(And on the same page, they claimed that they've been making steel frames comfortably under 3lb.)
Last edited by HTupolev; 01-21-16 at 04:26 PM.
01-21-16, 04:21 PM
#183
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I'd love to see pictures or or hear about a Colnago Master with modern components if anyone has one.
01-21-16, 04:36 PM
#184
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I just saw a statement on their web site that owners should expect a 3.0 lb S3 frame in medium size.
01-21-16, 04:48 PM
#185
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This Nashbar branded fork looks to either be the same, or is a knock off. I wonder which? At $54 it's pretty cheap.
Nashbar Steel Road Bike Fork
EDIT: On closer inspection the lugs look different, so I guess not the same.
Nashbar Steel Road Bike Fork
EDIT: On closer inspection the lugs look different, so I guess not the same.
1.125" vs 1" steerer, 40mm rake vs 43mm rake, straight vs curved blades, etc. The Nashbar fork has a high 370mm axle to crown distance compared to 356mm on the one I purchased.
Mine is a relatively light 872 grams (1.92lb) before cutting. A good Tange fork is going to cost at least $140 new. Generic CroMo forks are available for $40 to $60 all over the place but most of these are 2.2lbs or more.
Soma has some nice Tange Infinity and Prestige forks. Forks I couldn't get a straight answer from them on weights though.
Last edited by TimothyH; 01-21-16 at 04:55 PM.
01-21-16, 04:53 PM
#186
Senior Member
Other builders make similar claims. Strong Frames says he can achieve sub-3 pounds with 953 and S3 tubing, for instance.
Last edited by HTupolev; 01-21-16 at 05:04 PM.
01-21-16, 04:59 PM
#187
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01-21-16, 05:05 PM
#188
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and from Colnago's current offerings:
01-21-16, 07:44 PM
#189
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Mikkelsen, built in 2010 or 2011. 11 sp Chorus, Fulcrum 3 2-way's, brooks leather tape. Took of the rear blinker and the garmin, otherwise this is her as she is ridden. Definitely need to trim the steerer tube, just have never gotten around to it...
01-21-16, 07:47 PM
#190
Decrepit Member
Re frame weight, the 61cm lugged 953 frame pictured in post 18 weighs 1650g (~3.64 lbs.).
01-21-16, 09:01 PM
#191
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One of these might still be in my future, n+1 rules!
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Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
01-21-16, 09:25 PM
#193
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I call this modern. My 2003 LeMond Tourmelet made from sweet Reynolds 853. It's like riding on a cloud compared too my 2011 Madone 5.9, or 2009 Scott CR1 Pro, or my 2003 Kona Jake the snake (even with the low air pressure 700 x 32 tires on the Kona). I just wanted to qualify that statement least I get fussed at like an earlier poster, LOL!! And yet this LeMond is not as smooth feeling as an older steel Italian bike with a steel fork felt on the few short shake out rides I got in on it before the snows flew.
This bike also has the best shifting chain rings I have ever used. They're a set of Wickwerks 53/34 (that is correct) chainrings shifted by a standard Dura ace FD. These you a ramp of sorts vs pins to shift and I swear the shift from the little to big ring happens before I even finish the throw with the shifter. Pretty cool product that has been flawless since I agreed to test them.
This bike also has the best shifting chain rings I have ever used. They're a set of Wickwerks 53/34 (that is correct) chainrings shifted by a standard Dura ace FD. These you a ramp of sorts vs pins to shift and I swear the shift from the little to big ring happens before I even finish the throw with the shifter. Pretty cool product that has been flawless since I agreed to test them.
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Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
01-21-16, 09:28 PM
#194
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01-21-16, 10:21 PM
#196
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Exhibit A:
Hideous, for a number of reasons, but the black Shimano ain't the least of it.
Last edited by chaadster; 01-21-16 at 10:27 PM.
01-21-16, 10:32 PM
#197
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01-22-16, 06:50 AM
#200
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Am I the only one to notice that there is a peculiar correspondence between (modern) steel bicycles and quite upright riding positions? If you don't believe me, just go back through the photos in this thread. No, it isn't 1:1, but it is unusually high. Maybe OP should have asked for the owners' ages to be posted with each bike photo. Is it possible that nearly all the posters here, i.e. proud owners of "modern" steel are actually "alter cockers"? For those of you not fluent in Yiddish, that loosely means "old farts". All I know is something is odd here.