Best Aluminum Road Wheels?
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In any case, it certainly seems like there’s very little need to parse use cases or choose sides, as wheels which are both reasonably light and decidely aero can be had new at pretty accessible pricepoints, like around $500 or so.
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Correct, and specifically to your point, the SwissSide modeling that is (insofar as I can tell, although Flo did some good modeling, too) the source for these numbers being tossed around so imprecisely, does in one of their model scenarios nail the break-even slope at 3%, meaning anything steeper than that for a 70kg rider at 200w would be faster with 10% lower weight than a 10% reduction in aero drag.
In any case, it certainly seems like there’s very little need to parse use cases or choose sides, as wheels which are both reasonably light and decidely aero can be had new at pretty accessible pricepoints, like around $500 or so.
In any case, it certainly seems like there’s very little need to parse use cases or choose sides, as wheels which are both reasonably light and decidely aero can be had new at pretty accessible pricepoints, like around $500 or so.
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Here is a nice, easy to read study of the effects of wheel weight, rotational inertia and aero:-
https://www.swissside.com/blogs/news/aero-vs-weight
The conclusions speak for themselves, but the big take-home is if you want to ride fast then aero is far more important than lightweight wheels and wheel rotational inertia is negligible in all scenarios.
https://www.swissside.com/blogs/news/aero-vs-weight
The conclusions speak for themselves, but the big take-home is if you want to ride fast then aero is far more important than lightweight wheels and wheel rotational inertia is negligible in all scenarios.
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IMO, for high dollars, its Hed Ardennes and Belgium. For lower cost, Zonda. IME, Zonda wheels are hard to beat for the value.
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Obviously there are plenty of variables at play, but the above study is looking at an arbitrary percentage reduction in total bike weight vs total aero. The numbers I've seen from comparing actual wheelsets (Again I think it was from SwissSide) show a break-even slope much steeper than 3%. Probably because the aero gain for aero wheels is relatively high compared to their weight penalty.
And yes, that there are plenty of variables at play is exactly the point and why asgelle ’s reply to the comment, “weight only becomes a factor when the gradient is 6/7%+” was both appropriate and poignant. Doomrider74 ‘s introduction of the aero vs. weight slope percentage breakpoint concept was sloppy and certainly not fact in the way it was stated. In fact, depending on how the terms are set and what’s being evaluated, let’s say by speed, the impact of weight is of *diminishing significance* at slopes above 6%:
https://www.wheelscience.com/pages/aero-v-weight
Without conflating concepts, that “aero is king” when it comes to performance road wheels is indisputable. I’ll take just as much weight savings as aero advantage myself, if only because a lighter bike is easier to hoist onto a roof rack!
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Also, there is no armchair engineering argument, it’s about correctly representing data and factual statements, that’s all. But we have it covered and it has been sorted, so thanks anyway.
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Ally wheels are very comfortable and can be light (but a bit fragile). The old American Classic race wheels were tubeless and light and rolled so darn well. I am not sure of anyone still builds them like that. Too bad they went kaput and not sure who is making their tires. Many have narrow internal width, if that matters. If you're running 25s, it is fine. For steeper climbs and all we have seem to be longer (4 miles to 12 miles) climbs that go from 5%-10%, I find that lighter is faster.
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#36
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Yes, although that's a pretty strange way to frame it. The raw speed difference caused by every source of resistance "diminishes" at extreme gradients simply because bites are being taken out of a smaller pie. It's far more useful to look at proportional effect, i.e. what percentage does it slow you down by.
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Yes, although that's a pretty strange way to frame it. The raw speed difference caused by every source of resistance "diminishes" at extreme gradients simply because bites are being taken out of a smaller pie. It's far more useful to look at proportional effect, i.e. what percentage does it slow you down by.
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Yes, although that's a pretty strange way to frame it. The raw speed difference caused by every source of resistance "diminishes" at extreme gradients simply because bites are being taken out of a smaller pie. It's far more useful to look at proportional effect, i.e. what percentage does it slow you down by.
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Maybe, but as you say, since the pie is smaller, is 1/10th of a KpH any more or less strange or insignificant than, say, 50% of 1/60th of minute?! It’s all kind of vanishingly small, no matter how it’s sliced and diced, and personally, I don’t worry about it at the micro level, and instead just do my best to be reasonably light, reasonably aero, reasonably fit, and extremely hopeful it all works out in the end!
The OP should just bear this reality check in mind when considering “fast” wheels.
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#40
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That chart is from SwissSide (see https://velo.outsideonline.com/gear/...r-aero-wheels/).
And yes, that there are plenty of variables at play is exactly the point and why asgelle ’s reply to the comment, “weight only becomes a factor when the gradient is 6/7%+” was both appropriate and poignant. Doomrider74 ‘s introduction of the aero vs. weight slope percentage breakpoint concept was sloppy and certainly not fact in the way it was stated. In fact, depending on how the terms are set and what’s being evaluated, let’s say by speed, the impact of weight is of *diminishing significance* at slopes above 6%:
https://www.wheelscience.com/pages/aero-v-weight
Without conflating concepts, that “aero is king” when it comes to performance road wheels is indisputable. I’ll take just as much weight savings as aero advantage myself, if only because a lighter bike is easier to hoist onto a roof rack!
And yes, that there are plenty of variables at play is exactly the point and why asgelle ’s reply to the comment, “weight only becomes a factor when the gradient is 6/7%+” was both appropriate and poignant. Doomrider74 ‘s introduction of the aero vs. weight slope percentage breakpoint concept was sloppy and certainly not fact in the way it was stated. In fact, depending on how the terms are set and what’s being evaluated, let’s say by speed, the impact of weight is of *diminishing significance* at slopes above 6%:
https://www.wheelscience.com/pages/aero-v-weight
Without conflating concepts, that “aero is king” when it comes to performance road wheels is indisputable. I’ll take just as much weight savings as aero advantage myself, if only because a lighter bike is easier to hoist onto a roof rack!
#41
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Well now…weight has no direct effect on time, but weight does have a direct effect on speed up a climb. It seems to me it makes more sense to talk about weight and speed; 10kg sitting on the road is 10kg sitting on the road regardless of how long you look it. It’s only once the speed component— i.e. time over distance— that 10kg translates into anything.
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I would be surprised if was Poertner’s viewpoint that weight doesn’t matter until +6% inclines. Perhaps you can link the interview so we can get it from the horses mouth? I suspect there’s a lot more context there which needs understood.
#43
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Personally, I buy into the argument that weight doesn't matter for performance relative to the clock. That said, it's hard to get over the difference in 'feel,' especially in real-world riding conditions that most of us get to play with. Most of us have to deal with traffic and stop lights, and heavier, deeper dish wheels often just feel like a bit of a bear to get going, or to flick around in slower, tighter turns like parking lots. I think this translates into the mindset that heavier wheels are slower and take more effort. My 1900g Visions just feel like boat anchors from a stoplight compared to my old Ksyrium Equipes and Zondas that are 2-300g less.
That said, my 45mm carbon wheels have a very pronounced sail effect relative to all of the other wheels in my stable, so I can definitely feel the aero bit.
I don't have any experience, but if I were looking at high end alloy, HED Ardennes and the high end DT Swiss options would be on my list, though I have a soft spot for Campy's cool lacing patterns, too.
That said, my 45mm carbon wheels have a very pronounced sail effect relative to all of the other wheels in my stable, so I can definitely feel the aero bit.
I don't have any experience, but if I were looking at high end alloy, HED Ardennes and the high end DT Swiss options would be on my list, though I have a soft spot for Campy's cool lacing patterns, too.
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Older Mavic Cosmic Pro and Mavic Cosmic Expert , very durable and reliable wheels.
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#46
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Obviously a simplification, but if you don't think sacrificing weight for aero is the right idea in most instances at this point, then I don't know what to tell you.
#47
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#48
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In the context of the conversation of this thread, within the realm of performance road bicycle wheel weights, aerodynamic properties, and their intended uses, I have bought into the fact that trading weight for more aerodynamics makes sense for the majority of road riding, for most people.
Does that work better for you? Now, I'm going to go for a bike ride.
#49
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In the context of the conversation of this thread, within the realm of performance road bicycle wheel weights, aerodynamic properties, and their intended uses, I have bought into the fact that trading weight for more aerodynamics makes sense for the majority of road riding, for most people.
Does that work better for you? Now, I'm going to go for a bike ride.
Does that work better for you? Now, I'm going to go for a bike ride.
#50
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I think the best testing on the aero qualities of aluminum rims that I've seen comes from November Bicycles
https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/b...d-other-alloys
It suggests that some wide aluminum rims paired with the right width tire can compete with carbon rims, at least in most of the yaw angles that matter, and there is a significant difference in drag between the best and worst aluminum rims.
Assuming a rim brake bike, you'll have to replace the rims eventually anyways, why not try to find the aluminum rim that will give you 80% of the benefits with none of the drawbacks of carbon rims? Maybe not possible, but it's a tempting idea. I'd look into the HED Belgium + or the Kinlin XR31T myself.
https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/b...d-other-alloys
It suggests that some wide aluminum rims paired with the right width tire can compete with carbon rims, at least in most of the yaw angles that matter, and there is a significant difference in drag between the best and worst aluminum rims.
Assuming a rim brake bike, you'll have to replace the rims eventually anyways, why not try to find the aluminum rim that will give you 80% of the benefits with none of the drawbacks of carbon rims? Maybe not possible, but it's a tempting idea. I'd look into the HED Belgium + or the Kinlin XR31T myself.