I like the "safety stop," but ...
#1
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I like the "safety stop," but ...
... I'm not sure I see how it reduces accidents.
I got an email from CalBike urging support for a California bill to make the "safety stop" legal:
So, if there's no traffic, how does this reduce bicycle crashes at intersections?!
I got an email from CalBike urging support for a California bill to make the "safety stop" legal:
If the Safety Stop Bill wins the support of the entire legislature, bicyclists can proceed without stopping if there is no other traffic in the intersection and it’s safe to proceed.
The safety stop is vital to bicycle safety: a similar law in Delaware led to a 23% reduction in bicycle crashes at intersections.
The safety stop is vital to bicycle safety: a similar law in Delaware led to a 23% reduction in bicycle crashes at intersections.
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It reduces the amount of time a cyclist is stopped or trying to get back underway at an intersection, where they're most vulnerable to being rear-ended or right hooked by an inattentive driver. It's safer, more efficient, and makes legal what many riders are already doing.
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See post #3 above.
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The alleged carnage and confusion caused by traffic lights and people on bikes will continue on, unless of course the alleged carnage and confusion is a myth, then it will not continue on.
(p.s. In group rides, the best time to discuss how the group will behave or misbehave at traffic lights is prior to said alleged carnage and confusion at a traffic light. It’s not rocket science.)
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 03-25-21 at 01:28 PM.
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OK, thanks, I hadn't thought of those angles. I guess I should worry about getting rear-ended or right-hooked, but it's not the first thing I worry about out there.
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I have my own little group of 4 that are well disciplined riders and we know how to keep ourselves and others safe. It is another group of 20-25 most times that are all over the place. Not my group, not the ride leader so I just ride along and keep myself protected from the others. As in, spot the bad handlers and stay away. I have mentioned such issues to said ride leader but he's one of them.
It's much safer to avoid the group once realizing that there are too many risks riding with chaos.
It's much safer to avoid the group once realizing that there are too many risks riding with chaos.
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I don't operate under the premise that I am going to be rear ended at stop signs and lights. I make sure it is clear and continue on at stop signs. I make a complete stop at lights. most of the time there is other traffic so the normal wait time is observed. There is a light were I make a left turn toward a college of of a highway that wont react to my bicycle. I wait in the center of that turn lane with traffic going 70mph and up on either side of me and when it is clear I make my left turn. I don't ride with large groups of people because many of them ride like sheep. They don't think for themselves and anger weak minded motorists who feel the need to take vengeance on the next rider or group of riders they see. I have never been rear-ended but have been side swiped and t-boned at speed. I live in California. I like Arkansas bicycle stop laws.
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I think it's just a 'selling point'. I never heard it referred to as the Safety Stop, rather I've always heard Idaho Stop, but regardless the same thing is said that it reduces accidents. I don't see how. It's just common sense, period. I always do an Idaho Stop.
BTW, to prevent right hooks at stop signs is to take the lane. I get behind the car(s) in front of me, if they were there first and all car(s) behind me can't pass, therefore the right hook is avoided.
P.S. I never read the procedures of the Safety Stop in the California law, but I'd imagine it's much like here in this video.
https://vimeo.com/4140910
BTW, to prevent right hooks at stop signs is to take the lane. I get behind the car(s) in front of me, if they were there first and all car(s) behind me can't pass, therefore the right hook is avoided.
P.S. I never read the procedures of the Safety Stop in the California law, but I'd imagine it's much like here in this video.
https://vimeo.com/4140910
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I agree, it's more about practicality and convenience than safety.
The wise cyclist keeps themselves aware of everything going on around them. If I was hit from behind at a stop sign (or anywhere else) I'd consider it at least partially my fault for not noticing and taking preventive action.
The wise cyclist keeps themselves aware of everything going on around them. If I was hit from behind at a stop sign (or anywhere else) I'd consider it at least partially my fault for not noticing and taking preventive action.
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I agree, it's more about practicality and convenience than safety.
The wise cyclist keeps themselves aware of everything going on around them. If I was hit from behind at a stop sign (or anywhere else) I'd consider it at least partially my fault for not noticing and taking preventive action.
The wise cyclist keeps themselves aware of everything going on around them. If I was hit from behind at a stop sign (or anywhere else) I'd consider it at least partially my fault for not noticing and taking preventive action.
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I've never been hit by a car when I was the only one there. I've been hit by cars that pulled up behind me when I've stopped a couple of times. Not being legally required to stop when no one's there just make sense.
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What is the "safety stop?"
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It's a marketing term for people on bikes may treat a stop sign as a yield sign.
(BTW, Delaware's law is about to sunset and is unlikely to be extended. Also, the 23% reduction in crashes involving people on bikes at stop sign intersections, comparing the 30 months before the law and the 30 months after the law, dropped from a WHOLE 82 down to a PALTRY 63. Statistically insignificant. More importantly, the reduction in fatal crashes involving people on bikes at stop sign intersections in Delaware dropped from ZERO to ZERO. Also statistically insignificant.)
What I've learned in A&S:
Is there a moving motor vehicle ANYWHERE? STOP!
Is there a stopped motor vehicle ANYWHERE? STOP!
Is there a stop sign? DON'T STOP!
Go figure.
-mr. bill
(BTW, Delaware's law is about to sunset and is unlikely to be extended. Also, the 23% reduction in crashes involving people on bikes at stop sign intersections, comparing the 30 months before the law and the 30 months after the law, dropped from a WHOLE 82 down to a PALTRY 63. Statistically insignificant. More importantly, the reduction in fatal crashes involving people on bikes at stop sign intersections in Delaware dropped from ZERO to ZERO. Also statistically insignificant.)
What I've learned in A&S:
Is there a moving motor vehicle ANYWHERE? STOP!
Is there a stopped motor vehicle ANYWHERE? STOP!
Is there a stop sign? DON'T STOP!
Go figure.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 03-29-21 at 01:54 PM.
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I agree, it's more about practicality and convenience than safety.
The wise cyclist keeps themselves aware of everything going on around them. If I was hit from behind at a stop sign (or anywhere else) I'd consider it at least partially my fault for not noticing and taking preventive action.
The wise cyclist keeps themselves aware of everything going on around them. If I was hit from behind at a stop sign (or anywhere else) I'd consider it at least partially my fault for not noticing and taking preventive action.
Of course, unlike the motorist, the cyclist has real skin in the game... and thus should act in a prudent manner (maintaining awareness) to preserve said skin, regardless of the law. (the latter often written to convenience motorists, vice provide safety)
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I wouldn't go that far. If you are stopped and see a car barrelling towards you that has not noticed that the light is against them you are going to be hit! Don't even bother thinking you are going to somehow heave yourself out of the way like people do in action movies. That's why I FRAP. If a car somehow missed the fact that the light was red and blew past into the intersection they would, in all likelihood, miss hitting me, because I would be somewhere to the right of the main path of traffic.
The few times a driver came up too fast behind me I noticed it early because I watch for it. This allows me time to take steps to mitigate the threat before it gets to your last second Hollywood heave. (which still could work, especially if you're paying attention and have a preplanned escape route as you should!)
It's all about taking full responsibility for ones safety, not leaving any of it to drivers, anyone else, or the laws. Robert Hurst has a great write up regarding this mindset in his book "The Art of Cycling".
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Part of my strategy for taking the lane is to ensure there are no cars 'barreling' up the road towards me. It's as much a part of my actions as looking in my mirror and over my shoulder before I take the lane or make a change in course.
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Not sure why you've posted this now. First, you haven't made any sense. Second, this is a thread about Idaho Stop. At best this is gratuitous misinformation. At worst, it is ...
Last edited by Leisesturm; 04-02-21 at 10:07 AM.
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The second incident was someone f**kin' with me and I ended up giving chase, but was unable to catch him. I've had a few other weird issues with people behind me, but those are the ones that really stick out in my head.
Maybe this would have been better in another thread, but sometimes these threads get a little tangled up