TimothyH

It seems like a filter will be the best way to go in my situation/location.

Two bottles in the triangle with Gu/NUUN tabs, 70 or 100 oz hydration bladder with water and bag w/filter for refilling. Aquamira for backup. The filter/bag method seems like the best setup for the bike especially given the terrain which does not lend itself to carrying extra weight.

I'll probably get a Frontier Pro Ultralight and a Geigerrig bag. The description of the bag indicates that it is pretty durable and I think Frontier makes a cartridge which will handle viruses.

This should be good for day rides but might need adaptation for overnight trips.

This will be forest service roads is the Cohutta Mountains, not in the federally designated wilderness proper but in the general area - northwest Georgia and Tennessee. 4 mile climbs at 8% average grade is not uncommon. The area is pretty well documented and there is a fair amount of foot traffic in the wilderness. Lots of mountain biking just outside the perimeter too.


-Tim-

john_mct

Sawyer seems pretty confident that their filters do "work" on viruses. And their back flow cleaning system is super easy to do...

https://sawyer.com/sawyer-u/faqs/

Tourist in MSN

If you have a concern about viruses, two drops of Chlorine bleach per liter after 30 minutes should be adequate. I generally do not worry about viruses in wilderness travel and rely only on a filter or boiling, I skip the Chlorine. But I carry a one oz squeeze bottle with Chlorine bleach in it for purification in an emergency.
https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and...drinking-water

UV like a Steripen should also work very well on viruses.

But in some places only boiling or filtering is recommended, for example on Isle Royale the park staff specifically recommend against UV or chemical treatment as the sole treatment method

Several years ago EPA increased their Chlorine dosage recommendation, if you see a smaller number somewhere that is old and outdated.

fuzz2050

I've used the old school pump filters pretty extensively in the past, and more or less gave up on them. They tend to be heavy and slow.

I spent some time with chemical purification, which is light and slow. Plus, I don't really like carrying water that I can't drink. Plus, it does taste pretty bad sometimes.

I spent a long time with a Steri-pen, and I'm pretty happy with it. It's pretty quick to treat a liter of water, you can use most bottles with it, and you can drink just about a minute after sanitizing. I haven't had any problems with it that a new set of batteries hasn't fixed.

I've just got a Katadyn Befree, and it's pretty nifty, but has limitations. It's light and easy to use. I just fill the bottle, then drink. Flow rate is so high you don't even think about it. It's great if you pass water sources every 1 liter or so, but if you need to camel up and fill multiple bottles, it's a little awkward.

Choosing an appropriate water source is important, most places in the US viruses shouldn't be a huge issue. There just isn't a lot of Hep out there in the wild. Unless you see sewage being dumped into your water source, I'd worry more about bacteria and protozoan. A purifying device that can handle your run of the mill coliforms, plus your cysts should be enough. Most filters can do this with ease.

No matter what sort of treatment you use, it's not a bad idea to carry back-ups.

mev

Not off-road but there are two strategies I've used to carry or filter water for long gaps:

1. In Australia a rough guideline that worked for me was 1 liter per 20km plus 2 liters for an overnight. Longest gap I prepared for was 286km in northern parts of WA. That meant 18 liters which I carried as follows, in roughly my loading sequence:
- Three bottles on the bike, 3 liters
- Camelbak with standard 3 liter bladder
- Second 3 liter bladder in the camelbak -- up to this point was what I carried on fairly standard day, i.e. 9 liters
- Two extra water bottles in panniers - 3 liters total
- Sea to Summit bladder in panniers - 4 liters
- Two extra random bottles in panniers - 2 liters
That was the maximum and usually I carried less depending on distance and known places to refill on water.

2. The second approach I've also used is water filters, mostly a pump-type filter in areas with streams/lakes and a Sawyer filter in countries with faucets but not always trustworthy water from the tap.

GAJett

Now THAT brings back some memories. Cattle tank water, but straight from the tank.
Once on ranchland on the east side of the Santa Clara Valley. Clear, cool, lots of small fish.
Second time Zuni Reservation, AZ. Again clear, broken down car about 20 miles off pavement. Again clear.
Both times just dunked in my head and drank. (Gotta challenge the immune system to stay healthy!)
Cheers!

Squeezebox

Actually not! I've heard they are finding out steripen is not as effective as claimed, particularly in cloudy water.
Again remember a virus must have a host to survive. If you filter the host you filter the virus. But adding Aqua mira never hurts for the belt and suspender folks.
I'll bet that the Frontier pro is another dialysis filter like the Sawyer.

BigAura

+1 I use a Sawyer filter for my back-country stays, which may last for days. I look for clear and gently running sources.


My gravity water-filter system in action.

cyccommute 

If you are going to set up a solar still in a "survival situation", you are going to need the equipment to set it up and the time to sit around and wait for it to work. Filters have a long and proven history of working well and effectively. Most of the water borne illnesses in that Wikipedia article are large enough that even a poor filter will take care of them.

Viruses usually aren't filtered out because they are small and need further treatment but, for the most part, there aren't that many of them in North America, especially in areas where people go to recreate outdoors. Just a filter will take care of most everything you'll run across in the US.

60 miles of travel may not seem that much but it would depend on the circumstances. I've done 3 day trips that only covered a bit over 60 miles. There is no way that I can carry the amount of water needed for 3 days of travel and no way that a solar still could provide enough water for that trip either. Filters work (mostly) quickly and efficiently.

As for getting Giardiasis from a filter you were testing, I would suspect a manufacturing problem or a mishandling of the water after filtering. I've used filters for hundreds of gallons of water while on backcountry trips and have never had a problem.

Streams, creeks and rivers in the US are cleaner than many other countries. We don't dump raw sewage into lakes, steams and rivers. We treat our sewage in tertiary waste treatment plants. We discourage people from using streams, lakes and rivers are open sewers. Developed countries, as a rule, do this. I probably wouldn't filter water downstream of a waste treatment plant but, then, I wouldn't need to filter water there. There are other sources of clean water.

But if I'm traveling in the backcountry, streams, lakes and rivers are usually the only source of water. And I rather run the very low risk of a water borne disease than run the risk of dehydration.

skookum

Good summary. Thanks.

TimothyH

Hopefully this thought gave you some comfort and I wouldn't want to be 20 miles away from civilization with no water but I'm pretty sure that it is really bad advice.


-Tim-

andrewclaus

Man, you were one letter away from misspelling it "stool of thought" and that would have been funny.

jefnvk

People can acclimate themselves to different things. There are plenty of people in India that get by just fine on tap water, I can't say I was so lucky when some of it finally got through my careful defense.

djb

I agree with suggestion that its a good idea for you to get out in hot riding weather and really get an idea for how much water you will use per hour, especially in no shade, really hot or really muggy, while biking reasonably hard, sort of scenarios.

Getting a really good idea of what you need for X amount of time is to me pretty important, not to mention being aware of drinking enough , as some people are bad in that they dont drink enough for the conditions.

I used a Steripen for about 5 weeks recently, used it everyday to prep water for my two bike bottles on the frame, and usually about 2.5 litres in bottles kept in a pannier. It was reliable and worked well, I did have the model that uses a usb rechargeable built in battery as I knew I would have access to wall plugs regularly.
The sawyer system was used by my traveling partner and it appears to be a simple, effective and relatively fast filtering system. I would personally consider it for a diff situation.

I personally have never biked in areas where there was no access to houses, stores or whatever for long periods of time, but over the years, my rough rule of thumb for hot hot riding is that to budget for a bike bottle per hour (700ml or a bit more).
On my recent trip, we bought cold drinks in little stores during the day, and had drinks with lunch, so I still have never really spent an entire day riding with only the water I have on the bike.
I also have always tanked up on water after riding and in the evening to make up for perhaps not drinking enough during the day, but again, easy access to water taps etc for filtering and I never properly took note of how much I actually drank during a full day, although I have read of other folks who use that "one bike bottle per hour" general rule of thumb for hot riding, so its probably a pretty good base to go on.

djb

chuckle.

and yup, animal stool is the issue.

My dad got giardia back in the 70s or 80s and it wasnt diagnosed for a long time, so I am very much in the camp that you cannot drink from sources without a real risk of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, ie animal feces, and you're in trouble.

Carbonfiberboy 

Filters work fine but they are heavy, bulky, and slow. I've been using a Steripen for backpacking for years. Works great, only weighs 6 oz. I'd carry it now on the bike for long rides in areas with 50 miles or so between services, which definitely exist in my state, except that I don't do those long brevets anymore. Water treatment depends on there being water. If you're trying to ride across a desert, you have to pack water as described. However if your lonesome area has water, a Steripen and 2 bottles or a 70 oz. Camelbak is by far the best way to go. The Steripen depends on your having a bottle to use it with, so even with a Camelbak you'd still need a bottle. Makes it easier to fill the thing in restrooms anyway. Which is a negative about liter bottles - they need a deep sink to fill.

john_mct

Personally know one of those "serious backpackers" who works in Utah in summers in one of those survival schools; he drinks straight from the source, has gotten giardia twice now in under a decade. He didn't learn the first time and the second time he recognized the symptoms right away and treatment was much faster (because he knew what was going on). Still, the treatment systems are getting small enough that it's really not worth the risk and at touring pace there is no need to not spend the time filtering or treating water.

TimothyH

Followup to this thread.

Gravel riding in a remote area this weekend and I planned for running out of water. I used a Sawyer system with two 2L bags and collected water from a beautiful mountain stream running down out of a federally protected wilderness area. It was a bit cumbersome, perhaps partly because it was the first time I did it, but once hooked together it took only a few minutes to produce 2 liters of some of the sweetest tasting water I've ever had. Wound up just hanging out for a half hour, listening to the sound of the rushing water and wished I had a hammock.

I'm still going to look for something less cumbersome and like the platypus setup. I've ordered a platy 3L hydration pack to replace a well used Camelbak.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the responses. I have zero reservations about a filtration system in the wild now that I've done it.


-Tim-

acantor

I find the combination of hot weather plus difficult riding conditions (steep hills, headwinds, gravel roads, stress, exhaustion, and/or passing logging trucks!) noticeably increases my thirst. I can easily guzzle my way through a litre every 60 to 90 minutes.

A good way to decrease the need for water (at least a little) is to dress appropriately: minimize sun exposure by, for example, wearing dark glasses, a long sleeved jersey, gloves, long pants, and a bandana (to protect ears and back of the neck). I find polyester clothing works better that cotton when it comes to dissipating sweat and staying cooler.

DTG

Get an MSR Trailshot and call it a day. I have one and have used it thoroughly when riding/hiking just to test it out. No issues have come yet and it's been about three months.

staehpj1

I really don't think that is all that true any more with some of the newer filters. Filters like the Sawyer Squeeze or the Sawyer Mini range from 2-4 ounces and are about the same size as the Steripen. The Sawyer Squeeze tested at about 2 minutes per liter and the Mini at about 5.5 minutes per liter. So not all that slow either.

The older pump style filters are bulkier and heavier, but even they are not all that heavy or bulky. My old MSR Sweetwater is 11 ounces and bot all that bulky.

I personally don't trust the Steripen with cloudy water and find that I am put off by water that is cloudy or has stuff floating in it, so I tend to lean toward a filter.

Good arguments can be made for and against filters, steripen, or chemical treatments. Conditions can also tend to favor one or another too.

TimothyH

I looked at the trail shot and actually held it in my hands at the local Cabelas. I decided that I don't want to crouch down and pump but would rather let gravity do the job while I relax.

Light weight and compact design is compelling however. How quickly can you fill a bottle?



The Sawyer Squeeze is what I used. I didn't time it but 2 minutes per liter sounds about right. It filled a 2 liter bag very quickly, much quicker than I thought it would.


-Tim-

J.Higgins 

I too have a the Sawyer Squeeze, but haven't tried it yet. FWIW, I think that 2 mins per liter is acceptable though. Water is water, and water is life. Just sit there, filter out the cooties and tank up, right!

fietsbob

Similar Idea to the sawyer is a Katadyn-Ortlieb collaboration a water bag with a filter at the bottom,
so you fill the bag, then open a spigot.

Erick L

I've always used Aquatabs and just bought a Sawyer Squeeze filter for backpacking. Then a week later I heard about Hydro Blu filter, which is supposed to have better flow than the Sawyer Mini and is cheaper to booth.

https://www.amazon.com/Versa-Light-W.../dp/B01CTAMKHE