Dfrost 

Lots of discussions about Miyata on C&V. There’s this lengthy and long-running thread about Miyatas:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...yata-cult.html

And this thread might be useful, comparing 512, 712 and 912:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ifference.html

GhostRider62

North of $10K, they are randonneuses.

Bike selection is personal and certainly bikes selected for brevets are even more personal. Any bike could be called a randonneuring bike. Most brevets are done on modern bikes. I'd do a brevet on my old Dawes Super Galaxy but not the old Miyata.

gugie 

Sure, but I'm trying to find out what the OP considers a rando bike.

nlerner

It seems at some point, perhaps because of Grant Petersen (!), we called these "all-rounder" bikes. They weren't built for speed or for carrying large loads, but serve perfectly well as commuters, credit-card tourers, even gravel bikes. My modern equivalent is my Black Mountain Cycles Road. I've used it for bikepacking with 38mm tires:

For credit-card touring with lots of climbing:


For weekend fast 50s:


And for winter road riding with 32mm tires and fenders:


In the vintage realm, a Raleigh International, as the OP suggested at the start, could check lots of boxes.

ironwood

Some of the Specialized Sequoias from the ealy 80's were among the best production bikes made .I could have bought one in 1983, but didn't

The 1983 Trek 600 series were nice. I have a 630 converted to 650B .

Miyatas , Univegas, and of course Bridgestones are also good..

OutnBack

+1. I owned an 83 Sequoia, the Jim Merz version, & the ride & build quality were top-shelf, but sadly the bike was one size to large so I moved it along. I just picked up a 91 Bridgestone RBT that fits perfectly & it reminds me quite a bit of the Sequoia. After a bit of work I hope to turn it into my version of the ideal Rando bike.

Oldairhead 

I think the term "rando bike" is often applied to bikes that are not actually in that category. A typical randonneuring bike is used for riding brevets, and it possesses the characteristics which help it perform that task. These include reasonably light weight, wide range gearing for the often hilly routes that are followed, a comfortable riding position for long hours in the saddle, usually fenders for riding in all weather conditions, a lighting system for night riding and the ability to carry enough gear and food to support yourself on remote routes, often with few available services. Very few of the bikes shown above seem suitable to me for that purpose. I think that the term "rando bike" is often misunderstood and often misused.

The article link below does a pretty good job at defining a rando bike.
Bikes for the Randonneur

merziac

Jim is "Merz", I'm "merziac".

Classtime 

Go buy this: https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/bik...453769870.html
I bet the top tube is relatively short for a 63 and that 63 might be Center to Top.

ericlowney 

It looks like the top tube is 4mm shorter than my Dawes, but admittedly a much nicer bike. I just got hammered with a few thousand dollar vet bill yesterday so I may be doing some minimal improvements to the Dawes and continuing to ride that for the time being. I rotated the bars up and plan to slide the hoods up as well (if needed) to see if that adjustment fixes my reach issue. My only real issue if the reach is corrected is the bottom bracket is having a really tough time getting a balance of tight enough (removing 'slop') but not having excessive friction when spinning the pedals. Worst case I could nab a brand new sealed BB and crankset from Velo Orange for $240 which would easily (I hope) transfer to any new frame I purchase later down the road. I appreciate everyone's inputs on this thread!!!

ehcoplex 

Man, you just missed V-O's 20% off winter sale!
Have you had the BB apart to re-grease and inspect?

ericlowney 

I didn't even know they did that, oof! and yes, a friend who is a lot more familiar with bike repair than I am helped me get it all apart but the cups and spindle were in less than ideal shape. He seems a little perplexed why we couldn't tighten the BB down snug without the pedals refusing to turn. I'm not sure if the previous owner removed a shim, is using the wrong size spindle, etc... The cottered cranks were not fun either, both getting them apart and also getting the worn pins to go back in. We used a file to try to assist them so we could get a nut on the end. I don't know if I'll do it again unless I'm fully replacing it all (or restoring it to original to sell).

Dfrost 

Some bottom brackets require that the caged bearings be installed opposite direction of what you’d think. Can’t think of any BB that required a shim to get the bearings right.

I can well understand the big vet bill situation! Had a few of those.

Seems like the Panasonic linked several times, or the Miyata 512 linked back in Post #12 are more cost-effective solutions compared to $240 for just a new sealed BB and crankset! BTW, that Panasonic as-is would probably feel just as stretched out as your Dawes, since the brake posts have the same low position on the bar, and the bar itself has quite a long reach. Typically when installing brake levers, they would be set so that the tip of the lever is even with the bottom of the bar drops, That Panasonic fails there, but it’s a cheap fix.

Are there any bike coops in your area or shop that offers used bikes and parts? They could be a much less expensive source for parts and expertise. And you’d probably end up knowing how to do more bike repair yourself!

ericlowney 

yeah we do! There’s a coop about 30 mins away so I may check them out, the one in my town closed up shop. I figure I can take it apart first and bring all the parts and maybe someone there has something I’m missing to get it back together nicely. That Panasonic I think is going to be too big, the top tube length is almost spot on with the bike I have now. The 512 I’m not sure - I’d have to go and see that one. The $240 is for the devil I know lol, and I would plan to strip that off if I sell the Dawes after finding a new bike/frame. Not doing that right now regardless, want to see if the rotated bars help me at all first. We also have a bike and brew swap later this month so this post was somewhat to research what I should look for when I go there - would be great to hopefully see some of the bikes recommended here in person all in one place

Dfrost 

Here’s the BB cup and bearing (Campy Victory, as I recall) that required the cage be “backwards”. Note the recess in the cup to accommodate the inner ring of the cage.

merziac

Soooo, I'm gonna chime in here and try to follow up on our conversation. I strongly encourage you to take it apart but not take it to the other co-op if you do. They need to see it come apart to know if it was incorrectly assembled which I suspect it may have been, they would be able to show you the correct way but still not know for sure if it was wrong when you took it apart or just not adjusted correctly and tight enough. Dave has shown us above what could be wrong or it may be another version of that but you will not be sure unless you figure it out when you take it apart which you should be able to do with our help.

I'm going to do a picture`sequence to try and show exactly what we are talking about and walk you through this. You could also get some new bearings if there is an LBS or good hardware store close to eliminate some of the guess work. I can do a phone call while you are doing it if you want. You could get the cotters out and arms off before pulling the cups.

ericlowney 

Ok that sounds good. I will likely take it apart while video recording. What items could I buy prior to disassembly to help mitigate waiting on new items? Could I go ahead and order new/replacement cups and bearings and plan to reuse my spindle? Or do I need to wait until after I have everything taken apart to know what to order? Thanks again for the help

3alarmer

...these were a pretty solid product, and because made in Japan, often sell for much less than the Italian made Bianchi's.

ericlowney 

My bottom bracket started making an awful squealing sound at the bottom of my pedal stroke so it forced me to pull it apart and figure out what is going on. The spindle looks to be in terrible shape (pics below). I picked up some replacement cups but they are deeper/longer than the cups I had in there. I'm going to clean everything out and see if the new cups can fit (are there enough threads in the BB) and currently looking for a new cottered spindle. My goal was to get it fixed up in time for the bike swap on the 27th, so will be pushing it I think.

rgvg

Were the cups damaged? I reused mine but replaced the spindle and crank with cotterless.

ericlowney 

I'm not sure how to tell if they are still serviceable or not. Pics of cups below as well as what they look like next to the new cups.

merziac

@ericlowney

Sorry I dropped the ball.

The cups may work if they thread in all the way. Is the thickness at the small hole side the same?

We need pics of the inside of the new cups.

ericlowney 

Pics below. The new cups have a small retainer ring/gasket which the old ones did not have which changes the diameter of the inner ring from 16.5mm to 18.5mm (old cups were 17.5mm). I'm assuming that the cups and the spindle are toast - or do you think I could replace the bearings and use them for a little longer?

merziac

@ericlowney

Maybe but probably not.

As we discussed you can always keep them going with axle grease and very precise adjustment. Likely not worth it for the hassle now that you're here but you still have a bit of a tough road ahead, this can be challenging even having had experience.

If the cups will thread in then you can hope a spindle comes along and can be made to work.

You can get some axle grease and try all and see, new cups, new bearings and the old spindle to see if you can get usable to practice the process.

Assuming you got it apart with little drama, I would install what you have to see if you can get it setup and adjusted, then you will be more ready for fussy swapping adventure that lies ahead.

The pinpoint adjustment is very critical including and especially the lockring.

Were the cups tight and the bearings in correctly?

ericlowney 

merziac I'm honestly not sure if the bearings were in correctly, I think so but I counted 22 bearings that came out and the shop I bought the new cups from gave me 20 loose bearings to use.... the cups also came with retainer clips/rings and each ring has 9 bearings in it. I'm leaning towards using the clips this time instead of putting them in there loose. The cups were tight, however I do not have the correct pin spanner wrench so I'll need to find one. I got the fixed side cup in all the way though, so I'm optimistic that the adjustable cup will thread in all the way as well if I can find an adjustable pin spanner wrench (or the correct pin spanner wrench). I found a good spindle that would work along with a full bottom bracket on ebay, but it'll cost me about $43 to get it. I have a bunch of Lucas Oil Marine Grease that I use for my boat trailer, do you think that stuff would work well as axle grease in the BB?