Overdraft

Hi, I recently bought a new Trek Madone with Ultegra disc brakes and they have a stupid amount of free play before they begin to engage the callipers. 16mm by my measuring. So the issue is that the shift lever hits the handlebar before I feel like I’ve got the full stroke out of the master.
Both the free play and reach adjusters are set as far away from the bar as they will go.
I know on my motorcycles having my brake lever hit the bar before hitting the bottom of the stroke is unacceptable, but can be adjusted out. But these are my first hydraulic bicycle brakes so I just don’t know if this sounds normal…
Could there be air in the system? Maybe what I think is excessive freeplay is just a lot of sponginess due to air in the system? I should point out that before I picked the bike up I asked the FABS to swap the brake lines so the right lever operates the front brake… maybe they botched that?
Thanks for your thoughts!

vascof1

From what you describe it looks like the brakes need a bleed. I have 105 disc brakes and they are known to have more throw before they grab the rotor compared to your Ultegras. The bleed helped significantly.

genejockey 

Ultegra levers should have a screw to adjust free stroke. There are videos describing this, if you search "Ultegra disc free stroke".

Overdraft

ya, that’s how I know the problem is beyond an adjustment. I implied it when I mentioned that both the freeplay and reach adjusters were maxed out, but yes, there is no further adjustment available that would either reduce free play or move the levers further away from the bars. So either it’s ‘normal’ for the levers to bottom out on the bars (like I said, that’s a fail on motorcycle brakes) or there’s something else wrong?

curbtender

Overdraft

so it sounds like it IS an excessive amount of free play and/or it’s abnormal for the levers to hit the bars?

Sy Reene

This issue pops up from time to time, coincidentally with Trek examples:
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...sc-brakes.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...rgonomics.html

LarrySellerz

Theyre disk brakes, no idea why people decided to put them on road bikes. Youre SOL OP, might as well just live with the problem or buy a new bike

curbtender

If it is a new bike, bring it in to your LBS and have it checked. My experience is with MB/XT and have them set to engage halfway. I would say that if they hit the bars there us a problem. In video, he speaks of new bikes being delivered not fully bled..

Overdraft

wow, that’s awesomely helpful information for someone newly back in the sport! People must really appreciate your contributions to the cycling community

Overdraft

I bought the bike new from a Far Away Bike Shop (FABS) so if I take it to the LBS I’ll be paying full pop. As a low budget motorcycle racer for years I’ve been my own mechanic and am comfortable with hydraulic brakes. If this was for sure an air issue I’d just get on with bleeding but I didn’t want to head down that road if that wasn’t the issue!

Davet

Why not bleed them anyway, just to be sure that’s not the issue.

Sy Reene

What are the current warranty terms anyway? Unless you're referring to purchasing the bike overseas, will an authorized Trek dealer only do warranty service on a Trek they themselves sold and not on one you purchased from another Trek authorized dealer?

Overdraft

thanks for the links Sy Reene ! I did a search but apparently my search game is weak. Lots of interesting info. Definitely starting to think that the FABS may have failed to bleed properly after they switched the brake lines for me. Of course when I picked up my new bike it was pissing rain and I was trying to catch a ferry to get home so I didn’t have an opportunity to ride it and then say ‘hey is this normal?’

Overdraft

good question. it’s possible that the LBS will consider it warranty work and bill Trek for it, however I suspect the right side front brake setup might get them thinking that it wasn't an as sold problem.
Also even if I’m handing a vehicle to a mechanic for work I can’t do myself I like to have a solid understanding of the issue so I don't get an inflated bill hiding behind some mumbo-jumbo on the work order.

Overdraft

yup. leaning this way.

WhyFi

Pay no attention to him - dude's not exactly known as a font of knowledge or good judgement.

WhyFi

Before you do a full bleed, try to jiggle any bubbles back up in to the reservoir. Tilt the bike so that the lines are "uphill" from the calipers to the levers, with no traps in between. Tap any exposed brake line with a screwdriver, or whatever, and then vigorously flick the brake levers. If this doesn't work, do the bleed.

Also, are your brake pads still in good shape?

Overdraft

Presumably. It’s a brand new bike and I've only put a few hundred k on it so far… I'll try ‘burping’ the system first

cxwrench

Don't be any more of an idiot than usual Larry.
It would be on the shop and not a warranty thing. You'll need a Shimano bleed kit.

It wouldn't be a Trek thing, it would be a Shimano thing. It has NOTHING to do w/ which shop sold the bike...ANY Trek dealer will handle warranty issues for ANY Trek bike.

Your local shop won't (most likely) treat it as a warranty because the lines were changed to the opposite levers...it's not their problem and it's not Trek's problem.

Your idea won't fix anything, if there is air in the system it will end up at the lever and the lever will go to the bar because it's pumping air not mineral oil. It will not fix an existing problem w/ air in the system. You can 'burp' the system but you need the Shimano bleed kit to do it.

WhyFi

A little bit of air in the reservoir may not be ideal, but it's not necessarily a problem; Shimano certainly expects it not to be uncommon, which is why the manuals say not to invert a bike with hydro brakes. Yeah, if there's so much air in the system that there's no longer any oil in the reservoir above the master cylinder, it'll pump air, but a bubble floating at the top of the reservoir isn't going to be problematic unless the bike is inverted and it makes its way between the cylinder and caliper or if the pads wear out so much that the reservoir is completely drained.

Overdraft

I think dicking around with adding fluid and then doing the last two burps of the full bleed is worth a shot. I’m going to get the kit anyway but given that it’s a new bike and i’m not replacing the pads and the fluid isn’t old and dirty, and using the working theory that the FABS didn’t do a thorough job of bleeding after the hose swap and given that the bike hasn’t been upside down, I’m more thinking ‘air near the top of the system’ that might burp out rather than ‘air half way between the master and the caliper’ that would take a full bleed for sure.

and to threadjack my own thread, does anyone know why Shimano does this back and forth fill from the bottom then fill again from the top bleed? Om my motorcycle I just attach my vacuum pump to the calliper bleeder and suck the old fluid out from the bottom of the system while adding the new at the top. seems much simpler…

freeranger

Let me preface by saying I'm no expert on bicycle hydraulic brakes, but a fellow rider had the same problem with the lever going back to the bar. Turned out to be the olive. Just one more thing to check.

Overdraft

olive? awesome autocorrect? or new part of the bike I’ve never heard of?

WhyFi

They look like an olive with a hole all the way through - they help to seal the brake line connections. They slip over the brake line and are pressed in to place when you tighten the brake line nuts.