twolve

Hello folks, any ideas on who might have made this vintage chrome bike? Has shimano drop outs and some neat cursive on the head tube that I believe says W V. Build is mostly shimano arabesque 600, with a gran compe stem and newer riser bars.

Thanks for your help!

juvela

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you might wish to keep in mind that cycle could be of Belgian origin

certainly do not wish to assert that it is

however, beginning in 1973 Japan frame ends and tubing began to be employed in Belgium

what make/model are rims?

what make/model is headset?


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zukahn1 

The Shimano GS dropouts minimal braze on's ans 600 parts would seem to indicate a late 70's build. I'm with juvela thinking it could be a lesser Belgian or northern European bike built with mass produced med level Japanese parts. Bikes like this can be hard to ID since pretty much any builder could buy the nice mid level Japanese frame bits parts and do pretty good plain no detailed torch job of building a frame. bike on the cheaper side a lot did.

twolve

Thanks for the help! I'll skip this one.

MauriceMoss

Looking at the features of this frame, it really could have been made by anyone, both in Japan and in some parts of Europe. The head tube decal though places it in Japan.

Since I really doubt someone would fake one of these and apply that 'WV' head tube decal on a random frame (even if the decals were available, which I doubt), I'm pretty sure they are original.

WV stands for Wander Vogel, a brand of Joto Ringyo(sya), a company from Osaka that still exists today. Their bikes aren't too common in Japan and they are very rare in the US. This one most likely came back with a US serviceman.

I don't know if they built any frames or had them all contract-made, but based on bikes I've seen, I would say most of the stuff sold under that brand was contract made. Of all the Wander Vogel frames I've seen, only three had pics of the serial numbers; one was a Miki and two were Katakura. A number of frames looked very much like they were made by Miki, but without serial numbers it's hard to confirm 100%. I've also seen several that were made by Toei.
Another detail that leads me to think they had frames contract made is the fact that majority of examples I've seen had a decal that read: "Designed by Joto Ringyosya."

I'm not sure which model the mystery frame might have been originally. It appears to sport an older Mangaloy decal, like this one (seen on a Sekai 2400):




I think 'Tour of Japan' was Wander Vogel top (or near the top) model that was made with Tange 1, so a frame built with Mangaloy would have been more mid-level.



Tour of Japan model usually had "Tour of Japan" on the down tube, like this:






The mystery frame probably just had "Wander Vogel" on the down tube, like this:




Here's a few more examples:

MauriceMoss

jdawginsc 

@MauriceMoss

How the heck do you find all of these images?

HeyItsSara

If Wout van Art goes by WV, maybe it's his

rccardr 

The depth of knowledge on this forum continues to amaze me. Chapeau, sir!

zukahn1 

Great info MauriiceMoss interesting you mention that a couple you have seen were Katatura built since one of my first impressions was that based on the nice chrome and frame details it might be a Katatura build. If it wasn't for the cheapo converted bar setup and ugly crank set I could see buying this bike for a sub $200 price. With a nice set of drop bars brake levers and a 600 crank set to match the other parts it would be great looking bike.

MauriceMoss

Trust me, you don't want to know

MauriceMoss

It could be a Katakura, although the seat stay end treatment on this frame looks different than standard Katakura, but you never know. Serial number would confirm.

zukahn1 

Not that it matters I think your right on second third look the seat stay ends dropouts and seat tube do look a bit lower than most of Katakura's work. What made me think Katakura was the nice chrome really nicely done on the lugs and dropouts.

twolve

Wow thanks for all the information and solving a bit of the mystery. I've been busy getting ready to start teaching tomorrow so I haven't been here much.

Thanks for all the knowledge and the photos. The bike has been posted for $200 (link below). I don't need any more bikes but always like to ride and observe interesting bikes. I will watch to see if it sells or the price starts to drop. Winter is coming here in MN which makes for a good buying enabling.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ssenger_banner

zukahn1 

I could see $200 on this one if it had the 600 crank set to match the other parts and the original drop bars. With the current setup I would think more in the range of $125-150 as is.