The death of the Asian lugged import bicycle
04-17-24, 10:19 AM
#76
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,088
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4422 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times
in
1,031 Posts
What does availability in Japan have to do with the thread topic of imported bikes?
Last edited by Kontact; 04-17-24 at 10:23 AM.
04-17-24, 12:09 PM
#77
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,006
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11975 Post(s)
Liked 6,655 Times
in
3,486 Posts
While the skill to produce such welds is undisputed, some of us finds lugs far more elegant and refined, your disagreement to the contrary notwithstanding. And suggesting that some of us who appreciate lugs are "trigger[ed] [by] some long imprinted memories" is insulting, at best.
Such a shame to waste one’s time in such a trivial pursuit. At least if you could make a couple bucks with a wager on an argument it would be a little worthwhile, at least.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
04-17-24, 12:33 PM
#78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,088
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4422 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times
in
1,031 Posts
This may or may not relate directly to the original topic, but at some point I believe (in the late '90's?) the loading/strength standards for production frame/fork testing increased sharply, meaning that steel framesets in particular became yet harder to produce to a competitively low weight.
Of course steel frame production as applied to better-quality bikes had already trailed off by then.
I recall in the early 2000's someone bringing me a new Tange Prestige frameset to build up, and my being shocked by how heavy it was, despite it not having lugs.
Another related data point of sorts would be Peugeot's adoption of lugless frame construction around roughly 1980, where similar bikes could be compared having lugged versus lugless construction. The lugless construction removed significant weight, allowing lesser frame tubing to be used without any net weight gain.
So as far as the "when" goes, that continuum would seem to have began in the 80's as far as the higher-production models goes.
Lastly, Schwinn was perhaps the biggest player in terms of the other end of the time-line, when large-scale production first started shifting to Taiwan.
The arrival of uni-crown forks would perhaps be another significant point on the timeline, many early examples of which were brazed using a bikini style of crown.
Of course steel frame production as applied to better-quality bikes had already trailed off by then.
I recall in the early 2000's someone bringing me a new Tange Prestige frameset to build up, and my being shocked by how heavy it was, despite it not having lugs.
Another related data point of sorts would be Peugeot's adoption of lugless frame construction around roughly 1980, where similar bikes could be compared having lugged versus lugless construction. The lugless construction removed significant weight, allowing lesser frame tubing to be used without any net weight gain.
So as far as the "when" goes, that continuum would seem to have began in the 80's as far as the higher-production models goes.
Lastly, Schwinn was perhaps the biggest player in terms of the other end of the time-line, when large-scale production first started shifting to Taiwan.
The arrival of uni-crown forks would perhaps be another significant point on the timeline, many early examples of which were brazed using a bikini style of crown.
04-17-24, 01:01 PM
#79
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 472
Bikes: Two Peter Mooney customs, a 1980 Trek 510 townie, a Marin Stelvio set up for TTs.
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked 298 Times
in
162 Posts
Mixed tubing frame set perhaps? I think my Mooneys have some Reynolds along with the Deda 01. Peter didn't put on tubeset decals, and they'd look ugly and out of place I think.
Last edited by MooneyBloke; 04-17-24 at 02:09 PM.
Likes For MooneyBloke:
04-17-24, 01:41 PM
#81
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,194
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1565 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times
in
866 Posts
I never weighed the Peugeot frames, but my brass-brazed lugless PH501 complete bike weighs no more than my complete lugged PX10E from a couple of years earlier despite it's lesser 501+Carbolite tubing and steel Huret derailers (someone put nicer Sprint derailers on the PX10).
Both are just under 23 pounds in 57-58cm size (C-T), and both sporting 25mm folding clinchers on period narrow rims having 36 spokes and 13-26t freewheels.
Likes For dddd:
04-17-24, 02:06 PM
#82
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: St Louis Park MN
Posts: 174
Bikes: Mead Ranger '24- Armstrong 3sp '64 Follis 172 '74 Centurian Accordo 80's Mercian '85 Mark Zeh road '86 Kona Explosif '93 Merkx Ti AX '97 Santana Arriva tandem '99 Bike Friday tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times
in
23 Posts
I am going to add a why, not a when to this discussion. I worked in a bike shop in the 1990's when MTB sales overwhelmed road bike sales. At the time I said that you could leave a $200 MTB next to a $1000 road bike, both unlocked, and the MTB would be the one stolen. Used road bikes were cheap and I wish I would have started collecting then. Almost all MTBs were TIG welded so it made sense that TIG welding spread to road bike construction also. Sloping top tubes and different size tubing construction also was made simpler by TIG welding. I believed that this had much to do with the change from lugged to TIG welded construction in the 1990's.
Likes For MeadMan2:
04-17-24, 11:50 PM
#83
Full Member
If you're on instagram I'd highly recommend following haradatetsuro of Samson as well, he does beautiful work.
Likes For dphi:
04-18-24, 12:30 AM
#84
Senior Member
04-18-24, 04:36 AM
#85
Steel is real
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Not far from Paris
Posts: 1,968
Bikes: 1992Giant Tourer,1992MeridaAlbon,1996Scapin,1998KonaKilaueua,1993Peugeot Prestige,1991RaleighTeamZ(to be upgraded),1998 Jamis Dragon,1992CTWallis(to be built),1998VettaTeam(to be built),1995Coppi(to be built),1993Grandis(to be built)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked 980 Times
in
651 Posts
The after 1994 specialized cirrus a welded tig frame made of direct drive cromo was very well built and made in Taiwan. My1991 Merida Albon, 1993 Giant Tourer and my 1999 Jamis Dragon are made in Taiwan, they are very well made. TIG welds are very cleanly executed. There are skilled welders in Taiwan and in Japan.
04-18-24, 10:21 AM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Land of Cheese
Posts: 1,079
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 213 Times
in
105 Posts
Saw a minty Miyata mixte at the thrift for $49 a few days ago. Gold SunTour freewheel. Someone got themselves a nice bike.
Japan-made 1976 Schwinn SLT12.2 frame before painting.
Basket case off of CL.
Japan-made 1976 Schwinn SLT12.2 frame before painting.
Basket case off of CL.
04-18-24, 09:46 PM
#87
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,619
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10971 Post(s)
Liked 7,499 Times
in
4,194 Posts
If you mix Columbus tubing, I thought Columbus then wants a generic brand sticker vs model sticker.
If you don't use enough tubes, both Columbus and Reynolds say 'nonono' to a specific model sticker.
And example is using all 3 main triangle tubes from Reynolds for 725 tubing to carry the Reynolds sticker. This is per Rodeo labs. https://www.rodeo-labs.com/shop/framesets/flaanimal5/
The Columbus explanation was told to me by a local longtime builder.
Just surprised to see 2 brand stickers, especially with specific tubing model listed.
