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Minor Headtube Dent - Ease My Mind (Fingers Crossed)

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Minor Headtube Dent - Ease My Mind (Fingers Crossed)

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Old 12-05-23, 08:30 PM
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Minor Headtube Dent - Ease My Mind (Fingers Crossed)

Just got a frameset in the mail and not totally certain if it happened during shipping (packed well and no signs of damage to box) or if the seller omitted this detail (still waiting to hear back). Definitely looks like a "ooops, I dropped it" and not a "oh sh*t, I crashed" and the rest of the frame appears to be straight and free of damage.

Anyhow, still a bummer and I'm formulating the best possible fix (suggestions welcomed).

My gut says "it's not bad, just ease it back into place and forget about it" and my anxiety brain says "what if... what if... what if...". So yeah, what do you experts think?



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Old 12-05-23, 09:00 PM
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.
...have you tried fitting a headset cup in there yet ? Looks like it might be off enough to make that problematic, but it's hard to tell from a picture.
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Old 12-05-23, 09:09 PM
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That looks out of round to my eye.
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Old 12-05-23, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.
...have you tried fitting a headset cup in there yet ? Looks like it might be off enough to make that problematic, but it's hard to tell from a picture.
It is a bit too much to force a cup in right off the bat. The seller just responded and apparently is a frame builder himself. He advised to have a shop bring it back to round using a headset press, so I'm going to look into that tomorrow. Also offered a partial refund for the headache so that's nice.
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Old 12-05-23, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Ryder
That looks out of round to my eye.
It's really just at the top of the lug, the rest of the tube is fine. Bottom cup goes in no problem.
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Old 12-05-23, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by squarenoise
It's really just at the top of the lug, the rest of the tube is fine. Bottom cup goes in no problem.
I see that. The cup won't seat though?
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Old 12-06-23, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by squarenoise
It is a bit too much to force a cup in right off the bat. The seller just responded and apparently is a frame builder himself. He advised to have a shop bring it back to round using a headset press, so I'm going to look into that tomorrow. Also offered a partial refund for the headache so that's nice.
...If I could get a headset cup to seat fully in there, using a press, it probably wouldn't bother me.
Steel lugs are pretty malleable, for the most part, especially if it's not a cast lug. But they can develop cracks when stressed.

If you plan on using an alloy headset, probably get someone with a press to fully seat steel cups, top and bottom, and see if they align well.
I think I would install a steel headset, install the fork, then see how smoothly the thing rotates. Then go from there.

An actual frame person would probably have a reamer, and maybe face it again, to make sure you have a level surface there.
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Old 12-06-23, 06:32 AM
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Press a cup in and call it a day.
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Old 12-06-23, 07:35 AM
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Deformed...if the headset bearing fits it is your decision whether to keep it or have the seller refund the money for selling a damaged frame and not disclosing said damage.
Wondering what you paid for a rusting frame with deformed head tube.
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Old 12-06-23, 07:56 AM
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Yeah, the rust would bother me way more than the head lug.
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Old 12-06-23, 08:02 AM
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seems a frame builder would have fixed that...
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Old 12-06-23, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
seems a frame builder would have fixed that...
That would be my thought as well.
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Old 12-06-23, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by squarenoise
The seller just responded and apparently is a frame builder himself. He advised to have a shop bring it back to round using a headset press, so I'm going to look into that tomorrow. Also offered a partial refund for the headache so that's nice.
Yes, I'd take him up on that offer. Unless it's a show bike, that should be the end of that.

Originally Posted by jadmt
seems a frame builder would have fixed that...
Note O.P. mentioned it could have happened during shipment.
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Old 12-06-23, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by squarenoise
It is a bit too much to force a cup in right off the bat. The seller just responded and apparently is a frame builder himself. He advised to have a shop bring it back to round using a headset press, so I'm going to look into that tomorrow. Also offered a partial refund for the headache so that's nice.
Yes, that's what I'd do. A conical mandrel can restore it to round. I've used the Campagnolo 733/14 centering cone from the headset press for this:
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Old 12-06-23, 01:28 PM
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The seating of the headset is more of a concern than the integrity of the tube.
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Old 12-06-23, 01:45 PM
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Thanks for all the input, everyone!

After a bit more searching and a boost of confidence to do it myself, I think I have it sorted out.

I ended up using a socket that was close to the head tube ID and gently tapped the dent out. Went slow and steady and was a pleasantly surprised how well it worked. Next, I dug up a JIS headset cup which has a 30.0mm cup diameter and got that seated no problem, figured this would help make sure it was a bit closer to round, before using the ISO 30.2mm headset cup.

Overall a painless fix and everything is looking/feeling good. No visible wobble when spinning the fork. The installed headset is a Tange Levin CDS, but I may end up swapping it out for something with more stack so I can lose the big spacer.

I'm planning to post a full build thread soon and will share updates as it comes together.

And again, thanks for the feedback. Definitely helps in the decision making.

Originally Posted by Kai Winters
Deformed...if the headset bearing fits it is your decision whether to keep it or have the seller refund the money for selling a damaged frame and not disclosing said damage. Wondering what you paid for a rusting frame with deformed head tube.
Originally Posted by smd4
Yeah, the rust would bother me way more than the head lug.
Originally Posted by jadmt
seems a frame builder would have fixed that...
The seller, genuinely surprised by the dent, was very apologetic and as I mentioned above offered me a partial refund for the inconvenience.

Regarding the rust, It's really not bad for nearly 40 year old touring bike. Inside the tubes look good so I have no problems with a bit of surface rust.

Onward!

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Old 12-06-23, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by squarenoise
Thanks for all the input, everyone!

After a bit more searching and a boost of confidence to do it myself, I think I have it sorted out.

Onward!
Looks good to me. Looking forward to the rest of the build.
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Old 12-07-23, 05:56 PM
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I commend the OP for using ingenuity, as simple as it was, to fix the issue. Repairs like this are always a fun fix.
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Old 12-07-23, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
I commend the OP for using ingenuity, as simple as it was, to fix the issue. Repairs like this are always a fun fix.
Thank you! I tend to overthink things, especially if it's a problem I've never dealt with, so this forum is a huge help. I appreciate the advice and the "you can do it" sentiments which gives confidence to figure things out. I've learned so much here over the years and do my best to contribute with things I'm familiar with.
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Old 12-08-23, 05:00 PM
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Apologize if this has been said.

No sweat. It may be difficult to start it, but most cups have enough taper to do so. Simply press it in and it will act as a mandrel pushing the dent back out. If you can't get the cup started or feel it's taking too much force to press it it, use a piece of pipe or other cylinder inserted a few inches and use it as a pry to push the dent out. It doesn't have to be perfect, the pressed cup will finish the job.
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Old 12-12-23, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Apologize if this has been said.

No sweat. It may be difficult to start it, but most cups have enough taper to do so. Simply press it in and it will act as a mandrel pushing the dent back out. If you can't get the cup started or feel it's taking too much force to press it it, use a piece of pipe or other cylinder inserted a few inches and use it as a pry to push the dent out. It doesn't have to be perfect, the pressed cup will finish the job.
This is the way I was thinking but I like the op’s idea of using a socket to press out the dent. I’m assuming you dropped the socket in from the other side and tapped it on through thus taking out the dent.
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Old 12-12-23, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Chain smoker
This is the way I was thinking but I like the op’s idea of using a socket to press out the dent. I’m assuming you dropped the socket in from the other side and tapped it on through thus taking out the dent.
I don't get caught up in details. ANYTHING that works is the right way.

However, be aware that it's very unlikely that anything useful can be pushed through from the opposite side. The headtube ID is smaller than the reamed ends.

If the OP has something of the right diameter he can use a vise or improvise a press to force it in. But, there will still be springback, so the results will come up short.

Using a pry cammed into the tube allows working beyond the circle to compensate for springback.
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Old 12-13-23, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
It may be difficult to start it, but most cups have enough taper to do so.
It definitely needed some finessing before trying to squeeze a cup in there. The socket trick helped, and I'm sure I could have skipped the JIS install, but felt better including that extra step.

Originally Posted by Chain smoker
I’m assuming you dropped the socket in from the other side and tapped it on through thus taking out the dent.
I actually had it inside the top, right up against the dent. Held it in place using a socket extension and tapped on the extension to avoid accidentally hitting the frame. I positioned the frame so the headtube was face flat on a rug so it was a bit easier to handle. Hope that makes sense.
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