The quest for the perfect bike saddle...................again.
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
While I stand half naked in front of a mirror, Hogg repeatedly asks me to perform a simple muscle-resistance test—the details of which he says are proprietary and asks me not to reveal—whereby he places, one by one, the individual contents of my saddlebag at my feet. I "pass" the resistance test when he puts the empty saddlebag and then one of the tubes near me. After I fail the test when he places the second tube before me, Hogg picks it up with one hand and sweeps the magnet over it with the other. Hogg tells me he's changing the tube's polarity, then puts it at my feet again and digs his fingers into my sides. His hands come to rest on the top of my hipbones. They still aren't level.
We go through a similar process with my tire levers, and when my hips remain cockeyed, Hogg walks the levers across the shop and comes back carrying ones that he sells. He places them at my feet. His levers aren't notable, but Hogg insists that some things are to cyclists what kryptonite is to Superman, and even a change of polarity won't help. He suggests exorcising such offending objects.
He then administers the simple muscle-resistance test again. I pass it.
He then administers the simple muscle-resistance test again. I pass it.
Likes For tomato coupe:
#53
QR-disc must die!!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 703
Bikes: '99 Trek 520, '20 Kona Sutra (FOR SALE 48cm), '21 Simon-Bikes mini-velo and a chromoly-framed folding bicycle with drop-bars and V-brakes, that rolls even while folded.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 199 Times
in
147 Posts
I have a c17 cutout on my main road bike, a c17 regular on my gravel bike, and 3 other c17s on random lesser used bikes.
The 2 most used are both the newer weatherproof, while the others are the older soft cotton.
After maybe a couple hundred miles, the abrasiveness of the new style c17 was gone. They are quite smooth.
I own 0 Kevlar clothing. Just bib shorts touch the saddles and there is no wear that I have noticed.
I would be really annoyed if my bibs wore out quickly because they aren't inexpensive.
The 2 most used are both the newer weatherproof, while the others are the older soft cotton.
After maybe a couple hundred miles, the abrasiveness of the new style c17 was gone. They are quite smooth.
I own 0 Kevlar clothing. Just bib shorts touch the saddles and there is no wear that I have noticed.
I would be really annoyed if my bibs wore out quickly because they aren't inexpensive.
#54
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,617
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10969 Post(s)
Liked 7,495 Times
in
4,191 Posts
What's the saddle-to-handlebar positional relationship on your bicycle with the C17? I've heard that the C17 is not meant to be below the handlebars and my personal experience with it corroborates that. It stands to reason that different riding positions would impose different contact points with the saddle.
As for contact points, my bib shorts are what contacts the saddle and as for my body it's my undercarriage. I genuinely assume my contact is no different from anyone else(except the 2% outliers) with road bikes.
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,601
Bikes: 06 Lemond Reno, 98 GT Timberline mtn.bike
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 700 Times
in
436 Posts
I've had a couple of saddles I really liked, but have yet to find the perfect one. Of course, I've only been looking 50 yrs. or so. Hope you have better luck!
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,095
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 1,292 Times
in
744 Posts
You can ignore the advice if you aren't having issues, But if someone is having issues, especially sit bone pain on one side only, indicative of favoring one side by dropping to one side, then perhaps you could learn something. If you do not like Steve Hogg, you could listen to bikefitjames on Instagram, as he agrees with what I am saying about seat height, and has none of Hogg's bizarre ideas.
Last edited by phughes; 12-05-22 at 01:36 PM.
Likes For phughes:
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
I think everyone would agree that saddle height is an integral part of bit fitting, so you can't really separate the two. For instance, saddle height is highly dependent on cleat position, for which he also has ideas that are pretty far outside the norm.
#58
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
#59
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
He has some bizarre ideas, as outlined in that article, but his method of setting seat height involves none of the bizarre ideas, and his seat height method is quite sound. There is no reason to disregard his sound ideas just because he has others that are whacky to say the least. If your seat height is too high, for you, not based on some calculation or angle, but instead based on your own personal physiology and flexibility, then you will have issues, and you will drop to one side to compensate. This will cause you to have problems on one side, and can also lead to back problems, and hip issues. I had both of those. A seat that is too high is also a cause of saddle sores. I had that too. After I got my seat height correct, for me, I no longer had pain, and have not had a saddle sore since, despite long days with no padded shorts on tour, days up to 70 miles long, day after day.
You can ignore the advice if you aren't having issues, But if someone is having issues, especially sit bone pain on one side only, indicative of favoring one side by dropping to one side, then perhaps you could learn something. If you do not like Steve Hogg, you could listen to bikefitjames on Instagram, as he agrees with what I am saying about seat height, and has none of Hogg's bizarre ideas.
You can ignore the advice if you aren't having issues, But if someone is having issues, especially sit bone pain on one side only, indicative of favoring one side by dropping to one side, then perhaps you could learn something. If you do not like Steve Hogg, you could listen to bikefitjames on Instagram, as he agrees with what I am saying about seat height, and has none of Hogg's bizarre ideas.
.
.
.
__________________
Last edited by 3alarmer; 12-05-22 at 04:21 PM.
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,095
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 1,292 Times
in
744 Posts
You are dismissing good ideas simply because one person espousing the idea has some other ideas that are off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his ideas about seat height. Nothing. In fact, it is used by other fitters as a way of figuring seat height. I chose to link Hogg's articles because he explains it well, and has a good method for a person to assess their seat height without help. Your comment does nothing but possibly steer someone away from a fix that can help alleviate an issue, and possibly prevent more serious injuries that can be caused by a too high saddle height. I am now seeing why so many have you on ignore.
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
You are doubling down on irrelevant bordering on ridiculous. You are missing the one salient point. The OP has pain on one side. That is indicative to dropping to one side, which is usually caused by a too high saddle height. Setting seat heigh dynamically, by judging how a person interfaces with the bike while actually riding under moderate load, is a good way to get the seat height set properly for the individual. Doing so while riding take into account the position of the feet on the pedals.
You are dismissing good ideas simply because one person espousing the idea has some other ideas that are off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his ideas about seat height. Nothing. In fact, it is used by other fitters as a way of figuring seat height. I chose to link Hogg's articles because he explains it well, and has a good method for a person to assess their seat height without help. Your comment does nothing but possibly steer someone away from a fix that can help alleviate an issue, and possibly prevent more serious injuries that can be caused by a too high saddle height. I am now seeing why so many have you on ignore.
You are dismissing good ideas simply because one person espousing the idea has some other ideas that are off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his ideas about seat height. Nothing. In fact, it is used by other fitters as a way of figuring seat height. I chose to link Hogg's articles because he explains it well, and has a good method for a person to assess their seat height without help. Your comment does nothing but possibly steer someone away from a fix that can help alleviate an issue, and possibly prevent more serious injuries that can be caused by a too high saddle height. I am now seeing why so many have you on ignore.
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,095
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 1,292 Times
in
744 Posts
The OP has pain on one side, but that doesn't mean it's due to saddle height. (My post about Hoggs actually had nothing to do with saddle height.) The underlying basis of Hogg's fitting philosophy is that most cyclists' have issues with pelvic alignment. I didn't say his ideas were crazy -- I simply quoted parts of the article. Ya'll can decide if his ideas have merit or not.
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
The article explains a lot of Hogg's fitting philosophy. The OP has some kind of asymmetry problem. If anything, that's right in Hogg's strike zone.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
Oh please. You posted links about Hogg's saddle height method, and I posted an article about his fitting philosophy that details some things that he thinks can cause problems like the OP has.
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,095
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1034 Post(s)
Liked 1,292 Times
in
744 Posts
I think perhaps you have yourself on ignore. You can't even admit you posted about Hogg because I posted links to his site. Besides, your posts regarding Hogg does nothing to detract from his seat height information. In other words, your post is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Give it a rest. All you are doing is detracting from actual information that can help.
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
I think perhaps you have yourself on ignore. You can't even admit you posted about Hogg because I posted links to his site. Besides, your posts regarding Hogg does nothing to detract from his seat height information. In other words, your post is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Give it a rest. All you are doing is detracting from actual information that can help.
#68
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cape Vincent, NY
Posts: 1,392
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac Expert, 2002 TREK 520, Schwinn Mesa WINTER BIKE, Huffy Rock Creek 29er, 1970s-era Ross ten speed. All my bikes are highly modified(except the Tarmac) yet functional, and generally look beat to ****. .
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times
in
51 Posts
The OP has scoliosis. His spine bends sideways. His seat height might be fine. It's complicated.
#70
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
.
...the guy asked for "any thoughts?" If he were not interested in hearing them, why would he ask ? Is this another troll thread ? I hate it when that happens.
...the guy asked for "any thoughts?" If he were not interested in hearing them, why would he ask ? Is this another troll thread ? I hate it when that happens.
__________________
#71
Sock Puppet
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
Did you upgrade your iPhone? Get a new seat bag? How about different tire levers? Carrying an extra tube with you? Steve Hogg thinks all of those things can affect your fit:
The Heretic Will See You Now - Bicycling Magazine
The Heretic Will See You Now - Bicycling Magazine
#72
Sock Puppet
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times
in
573 Posts
OK, an update:
I lowered my saddle by about 3mm and rode a 33 mile ride today. Here are my observations:
1) Sit bone pain didn't come back until about 10 miles in, then it was back as usual. The pain usually happens sooner than this. This could just be coincidental.
2) I felt less powerful and was definitely slower up hills. This of course could just be me getting used to a new position. It definitely felt awkward at first.
3) I had more of a tendency to slide forward on my saddle and had to repeatedly push back.
4) There appeared to be less pressure on my hands.
5) I had a slight pain in the patella toward the end of the ride.
6) Still no perineal numbness.
I lowered my saddle by about 3mm and rode a 33 mile ride today. Here are my observations:
1) Sit bone pain didn't come back until about 10 miles in, then it was back as usual. The pain usually happens sooner than this. This could just be coincidental.
2) I felt less powerful and was definitely slower up hills. This of course could just be me getting used to a new position. It definitely felt awkward at first.
3) I had more of a tendency to slide forward on my saddle and had to repeatedly push back.
4) There appeared to be less pressure on my hands.
5) I had a slight pain in the patella toward the end of the ride.
6) Still no perineal numbness.
Last edited by Lombard; 12-05-22 at 05:14 PM.
Likes For Lombard:
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,954
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3956 Post(s)
Liked 7,308 Times
in
2,949 Posts
#75
Friendship is Magic
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,985
Bikes: old ones
Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26425 Post(s)
Liked 10,381 Times
in
7,209 Posts
.
...yet another thread in which I should never have participated. Proving once again, that no good deed goes unpunished.
...yet another thread in which I should never have participated. Proving once again, that no good deed goes unpunished.
__________________