Down With 'Avid Cyclists'
03-28-10, 03:48 PM
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Down With 'Avid Cyclists'
Personally, I hate the term, glad to see someone put it in writing and express it so well
https://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/03...-cyclists.html
Originally Posted by Copenhagenize
23 MARCH 2010
Down With "Avid Cyclists"
This is an article by a Guest Writer, invited to post here on Copenhagenize.com. Michael Druker has a great blog entitled Psystenance - Sustainability through the mind's eye and he wrote this article a few days ago. I fancied inviting him to allow me to post it here, and he kindly obliged.
Down With "Avid Cyclists"
As if it wasn’t enough that we scare people away from cycling with our exclusively car-oriented infrastructure and even a socially constructed fear of cycling, we also do it by marginalizing cycling as something done only by the kind of people who cycle. Make a mental count of how often you’ve seen news reports or commentary refer to “avid cyclists”, and the number of times you might have used this term yourself.
Banish “avid cyclist” from your vocabulary. Self-marginalizing language like this is why we can’t have nice infrastructure.
By using and condoning the use of this term, we help reinforce our tendency to neglect the impact of the situation and over-attribute behavior to characteristics of the person. In other words, labelling those who willingly cycle as “avid cyclists” is a way of setting aside the difficult and interesting problem of how to make our cities conducive to cycling — in favor of the easy story of cycling as something “other”, as something done by people who aren’t normal. Why bother making the city a better place to cycle if the only people who will do it are the ones who are already cyclists? Why waste city money on them?
Note the division into us (normal people) and them (avid cyclists). Never the twain shall meet. Is that true? No, it is not.
I claim that in most North American cities, while you will find many people riding a bicycle for utility/transportation, most people who cycle are hardly avid. Do they cycle in the dark? Do they always cycle on the road? Do they cycle in any part of the city? At any time of year? The answers are an emphatic no. And the reason is that the majority are cycling when the situation makes it easy and attractive for the person who considers the possibility. Avid cyclists should be resilient cyclists, but actual North American cyclists are fickle. With their recreational bikes and the poor infrastructure they have access to, they are fair-weather, back-roads cyclists.
Some places seem so far into the motor kingdom that cycling as transportation appears patently absurd to many. Thus, to brave the unfriendly conditions, cyclists must be avid — doing it as a sport, as exercise, to prove a point. Yet this describes fewer places than you think. I know it absolutely doesn’t describe Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario, however “avid cyclist” still seems to be the mindset here.
There is a poignant irony in the number of obituaries a search for “avid cyclist” turns up. If instead of marginalizing cycling, we facilitate it through infrastructure and encourage regular people to ride, fewer people will die on the roads and those who cycle will be healthier for doing so. We need to free cycling from the shackles of recreation. We need to get utility bicycles into our bike stores. And instead of the conversation being about cyclists, we need to make it about regular people taking advantage of the two-wheel mobility available to them — because it is effective and enjoyable.
Down With "Avid Cyclists"
This is an article by a Guest Writer, invited to post here on Copenhagenize.com. Michael Druker has a great blog entitled Psystenance - Sustainability through the mind's eye and he wrote this article a few days ago. I fancied inviting him to allow me to post it here, and he kindly obliged.
Down With "Avid Cyclists"
As if it wasn’t enough that we scare people away from cycling with our exclusively car-oriented infrastructure and even a socially constructed fear of cycling, we also do it by marginalizing cycling as something done only by the kind of people who cycle. Make a mental count of how often you’ve seen news reports or commentary refer to “avid cyclists”, and the number of times you might have used this term yourself.
Banish “avid cyclist” from your vocabulary. Self-marginalizing language like this is why we can’t have nice infrastructure.
By using and condoning the use of this term, we help reinforce our tendency to neglect the impact of the situation and over-attribute behavior to characteristics of the person. In other words, labelling those who willingly cycle as “avid cyclists” is a way of setting aside the difficult and interesting problem of how to make our cities conducive to cycling — in favor of the easy story of cycling as something “other”, as something done by people who aren’t normal. Why bother making the city a better place to cycle if the only people who will do it are the ones who are already cyclists? Why waste city money on them?
Note the division into us (normal people) and them (avid cyclists). Never the twain shall meet. Is that true? No, it is not.
I claim that in most North American cities, while you will find many people riding a bicycle for utility/transportation, most people who cycle are hardly avid. Do they cycle in the dark? Do they always cycle on the road? Do they cycle in any part of the city? At any time of year? The answers are an emphatic no. And the reason is that the majority are cycling when the situation makes it easy and attractive for the person who considers the possibility. Avid cyclists should be resilient cyclists, but actual North American cyclists are fickle. With their recreational bikes and the poor infrastructure they have access to, they are fair-weather, back-roads cyclists.
Some places seem so far into the motor kingdom that cycling as transportation appears patently absurd to many. Thus, to brave the unfriendly conditions, cyclists must be avid — doing it as a sport, as exercise, to prove a point. Yet this describes fewer places than you think. I know it absolutely doesn’t describe Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario, however “avid cyclist” still seems to be the mindset here.
There is a poignant irony in the number of obituaries a search for “avid cyclist” turns up. If instead of marginalizing cycling, we facilitate it through infrastructure and encourage regular people to ride, fewer people will die on the roads and those who cycle will be healthier for doing so. We need to free cycling from the shackles of recreation. We need to get utility bicycles into our bike stores. And instead of the conversation being about cyclists, we need to make it about regular people taking advantage of the two-wheel mobility available to them — because it is effective and enjoyable.
03-28-10, 05:50 PM
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Never really thought about it, particularly not like that, as the term is almost unheard-of around here where I live. Even the local club isn't referred to in this manner. Hmm, being pigeonholed like that... don't think I like that, but I never wanted to be pigeonholed in ANY way, shape, or form.
03-28-10, 07:54 PM
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yes the last 3 decades with north american (and british) bicycling focus on avid cycling, club and weekend cycling has dealt a grave disservice to mainstreaming bicycles as they should be in urban areas. America got sold a shoddy lot of goods no disrespect Henry Ford. A BIKE in every garage!
who'd doing the pigeonholing of DX-Man? if he lives in north america he is actively marginalized as a class of transportation user by the vast majority of citizens, businesses, governmental bodies, law enforcement, judiciaries and legislatures across the continent.
this focus is changing, slowly, in the US. With the recent shift in federal transportation policy, perhaps the mainstreaming of bicycling will become less avid and more normal across the american cityscape.
who'd doing the pigeonholing of DX-Man? if he lives in north america he is actively marginalized as a class of transportation user by the vast majority of citizens, businesses, governmental bodies, law enforcement, judiciaries and legislatures across the continent.
this focus is changing, slowly, in the US. With the recent shift in federal transportation policy, perhaps the mainstreaming of bicycling will become less avid and more normal across the american cityscape.
Last edited by Bekologist; 03-28-10 at 07:58 PM.
03-28-10, 10:10 PM
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I've used the term "avid cyclists" a number of times in discussions with politicians, transportation planners and engineers, in order to replace the more awkward terms that they were using. These politicians, planners and engineers were lamenting those cyclists who disliked the sidewalk-type bike paths that were being planned and built, and who continued to use the adjacent roadways and spoke in favor of continued use of the roadways. The government folks used the terms "serious," "recreational," "experienced," and so forth, but these terms sometimes caused more confusion. Many of the high-mileage road cyclists were commuters, not recreational cyclists, and many were just beginning road cycling, and not very experienced. Defining them as "serious" seemed like a backhanded insult of any other group. When a transportation planning consultant conducted a study for the city transportation plan and concluded that over 90% of the cycling miles in the city were cycled by what they defined as "avid" cyclists, I adopted the term. Avid cyclists are enthusiastic about their activity, and generally knowledgeable, in addition to riding more.
Once the local government accepted the fact that the "avid" cyclists weren't going away, the government started making plans that accommodated cycling on the roadways in addition to the designated sidewalk paths. The government's sidewalk cycling engineering program was then targeted at novice cyclists while the education and enforcement efforts in town embraced roadway cycling.
Once the local government accepted the fact that the "avid" cyclists weren't going away, the government started making plans that accommodated cycling on the roadways in addition to the designated sidewalk paths. The government's sidewalk cycling engineering program was then targeted at novice cyclists while the education and enforcement efforts in town embraced roadway cycling.
03-28-10, 11:25 PM
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I think the article is an interesting and original thought, but
this whole paragraph is simply one big weird incorrect strawman of some sort. Every big (American) city I've lived in has had a sizable number of cyclists, many of whom bike at night, in poor weather, and to every corner of the city. (Also, very big city I've lived in has at least one restaurant that delivers food by bike). Would I say that most people that own a bicycle (let alone 'avid cyclists') do any (let alone all) of those things? Absolutely not, but why does it matter how many of them do those things, or at what times, or for what reasons?
The author's point of view sounds like it comes from someone who lives in some sort of suburban hell where literally every cyclist around him is either a sidewalk-rider or a weekend warrior that drives his bike to club rides, and has not exposed himself enough to the urban cycling lifestyle that often revolves around night life and colorful-bicycles-as-skateboards, or has failed to witness a bicycle commuter in his area. I don't know how this could be the case, as he obviously sounds well-spoken about cycling, but regardless, he also sounds like he has blinders on.
As a social movement, I think the best thing for cycling is more 'avid cyclists'. I think every family needs an 'avid cyclist' in it- someone who bikes to work in his neon vest and helmet light almost every day, or who has toured across the country, because I want every driver, when they see a cyclist (whether literally or in their mind when they see a ballot for funds for new bike lanes), to think 'hey, that cyclist reminds me of my parent/sibling/best friend'.
I claim that in most North American cities, while you will find many people riding a bicycle for utility/transportation, most people who cycle are hardly avid. Do they cycle in the dark? Do they always cycle on the road? Do they cycle in any part of the city? At any time of year? The answers are an emphatic no. And the reason is that the majority are cycling when the situation makes it easy and attractive for the person who considers the possibility. Avid cyclists should be resilient cyclists, but actual North American cyclists are fickle. With their recreational bikes and the poor infrastructure they have access to, they are fair-weather, back-roads cyclists.
The author's point of view sounds like it comes from someone who lives in some sort of suburban hell where literally every cyclist around him is either a sidewalk-rider or a weekend warrior that drives his bike to club rides, and has not exposed himself enough to the urban cycling lifestyle that often revolves around night life and colorful-bicycles-as-skateboards, or has failed to witness a bicycle commuter in his area. I don't know how this could be the case, as he obviously sounds well-spoken about cycling, but regardless, he also sounds like he has blinders on.
As a social movement, I think the best thing for cycling is more 'avid cyclists'. I think every family needs an 'avid cyclist' in it- someone who bikes to work in his neon vest and helmet light almost every day, or who has toured across the country, because I want every driver, when they see a cyclist (whether literally or in their mind when they see a ballot for funds for new bike lanes), to think 'hey, that cyclist reminds me of my parent/sibling/best friend'.
03-28-10, 11:31 PM
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lose the neon vest, the helmet and the expensive, uncomfortable, temperamental, featherweight bicycle and maybe people will start to 'get it'. the whole idea that you need anything besides a properly equipped comfortable upright bicycle with the basics like lights, fenders and a basket - and not a fancy kit, brain bucket and an unobtanium racing machine - is where the fail begins
03-29-10, 12:05 AM
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I've used the term "avid cyclists" a number of times in discussions with politicians, transportation planners and engineers, in order to replace the more awkward terms that they were using. These politicians, planners and engineers were lamenting those cyclists who disliked the sidewalk-type bike paths that were being planned and built,
...
Once the local government accepted the fact that the "avid" cyclists weren't going away, the government started making plans that accommodated cycling on the roadways in addition to the designated sidewalk paths. The government's sidewalk cycling engineering program was then targeted at novice cyclists while the education and enforcement efforts in town embraced roadway cycling.
...
Once the local government accepted the fact that the "avid" cyclists weren't going away, the government started making plans that accommodated cycling on the roadways in addition to the designated sidewalk paths. The government's sidewalk cycling engineering program was then targeted at novice cyclists while the education and enforcement efforts in town embraced roadway cycling.
The problem with setting off cyclists aside to pathways , in America they will never lead in all directions as they do in say, Germany.. Yet, when we commute by bike, we go in all directions.. . We might not agree upon the merits of the word, serious.. But, if we bike commute regularly in unpredictable directions, that is what we are..
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03-29-10, 01:20 AM
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lose the neon vest, the helmet and the expensive, uncomfortable, temperamental, featherweight bicycle and maybe people will start to 'get it'. the whole idea that you need anything besides a properly equipped comfortable upright bicycle with the basics like lights, fenders and a basket - and not a fancy kit, brain bucket and an unobtanium racing machine - is where the fail begins
'Uncomfortable and temperamental' is a fallacy, and a quality and well-maintained bike, even an old one, will spin and shift like a dream for a long, long time. You want mushy and finicky shifting and poor brakes? Try any new cheap bike. Comfort is something that comes with experience; I know men twice my age with a bigger saddle-to-bar drop than I ride with. Expensive and featherweight are purely options, and not prerequisites. 'Unobtainium', again, just sounds like your sour grapes.
Telling everyone that they MUST ride a 40-pound upright bike is simply ridiculous. My commute is 16 miles each direction, plus deviations for other errands, and its all up and down hills, non-stop, over potholed roads and close to traffic. The thought of doing it on anything more upright than, say, my (aggressively-oriented) mountain bike is craziness.
Cyclists wear 'kits' because jerseys and padded shorts feel great to ride in. Cyclists wear neon, wrap their bikes in reflective tape and sport $300 lights because they think that just enough drivers are too stupid to not hit them that they feel the purchase is warranted (and they're right). I wear a helmet because it has saved me from head injury many times over, and I think it will do it again at some unforseeable point in the future. Will I be allowed to keep my clipless shoes, or are they banned from your slow-motion utopia, too?
This 'fail' that you see doesn't exist to the degree you (or the article's author) think it does. My local shop has a huge showroom of fancy racing bikes and posters of Tour de France riders. Words like 'Ultegra', 'monocoque', and 'CAAD' are thrown around liberally. You want to know what the shops sells the most of? Hybrids and kids bikes. Racks and panniers are hugely popular, too. Yes, there are weekend warriors in my area that drive their pretty bikes to the weekend club rides, but they are not all cyclists, nor are such club cyclists strictly just recreational club cyclists- many are everyday riders, or were everyday riders before they became wealthy enough to afford bikes made out of unobtainium.
03-29-10, 01:33 AM
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03-29-10, 07:00 AM
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The problem has nothing to do with "avid cyclists" The fit and healthy have always motivated society, the problem is being a fit and healthy cyclist that is too lazy to go ride in places out of the way of car traffic. All sports with avid participants have a designated place to do the sport with the exception of road cycling.
On the other end we have the perception of people too poor to drive so they bike, viewed sort of like the homeless begging for money on a busy street corner... "Get a job, be somewhere else." This perception may be different around some universities but otherwise we are out of place no matter how we dress.
On the other end we have the perception of people too poor to drive so they bike, viewed sort of like the homeless begging for money on a busy street corner... "Get a job, be somewhere else." This perception may be different around some universities but otherwise we are out of place no matter how we dress.
03-29-10, 07:10 AM
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lose the neon vest, the helmet and the expensive, uncomfortable, temperamental, featherweight bicycle and maybe people will start to 'get it'. the whole idea that you need anything besides a properly equipped comfortable upright bicycle with the basics like lights, fenders and a basket - and not a fancy kit, brain bucket and an unobtanium racing machine - is where the fail begins
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-29-10, 07:15 AM
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From Dictionary.com: "Avid: enthusiastic, ardent, dedicated". Guilty as charged.
I enjoy being on my bike more than pushing the vacuum cleaner around the house, so I suppose I shouldn't be expecting an invitation to join the Copenhagenize club any time soon. Even though 95% of my cycling is for transportation, in the heat/cold/rain/snow/dark/city traffic and wearing office attire.
Another lame attempt to stereotype and divide cyclists to advance a political agenda.
I enjoy being on my bike more than pushing the vacuum cleaner around the house, so I suppose I shouldn't be expecting an invitation to join the Copenhagenize club any time soon. Even though 95% of my cycling is for transportation, in the heat/cold/rain/snow/dark/city traffic and wearing office attire.
Another lame attempt to stereotype and divide cyclists to advance a political agenda.
03-29-10, 07:18 AM
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lose the neon vest, the helmet and the expensive, uncomfortable, temperamental, featherweight bicycle and maybe people will start to 'get it'. the whole idea that you need anything besides a properly equipped comfortable upright bicycle with the basics like lights, fenders and a basket - and not a fancy kit, brain bucket and an unobtanium racing machine - is where the fail begins
03-29-10, 07:22 AM
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From Dictionary.com: "Avid: enthusiastic, ardent, dedicated". Guilty as charged.
I enjoy being on my bike more than pushing the vacuum cleaner around the house, so I suppose I shouldn't be expecting an invitation to join the Copenhagenize club any time soon. Even though 95% of my cycling is for transportation, in the heat/cold/rain/snow/dark/city traffic and wearing office attire.
Another lame attempt to stereotype and divide cyclists to advance a political agenda.
I enjoy being on my bike more than pushing the vacuum cleaner around the house, so I suppose I shouldn't be expecting an invitation to join the Copenhagenize club any time soon. Even though 95% of my cycling is for transportation, in the heat/cold/rain/snow/dark/city traffic and wearing office attire.
Another lame attempt to stereotype and divide cyclists to advance a political agenda.
If not, you are not a true believer.
If so, you prolly should get it fixed.
BTW, if this post isn't even just a leeetle bit funny, then you are definitely a serious cyclist.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
03-29-10, 07:39 AM
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the desire to mainstream bicycling thru interventions that support greater community participation in bicycling is inclusive, empowering, and mainstream, NOT 'divisive'.
leave the fracturing to the avid, rabid cyclists that pretend laws about cycling do not say what they mean (FTR, anyone???), and try to block infrastructure that supports greater participation in cycling - there's where the 'divisive' lives!
The author is rightfully dismissive of american road culture. why do cyclists have to be avid to commute five miles to work on a bicycle? why isnt' bicycling more mainstream and less avid in america?
how come Germany's senior citizens participate in transportational cycling by a FACTOR greater than america's 'avid' bicyclists? Denmark had problems with the car culture in copenhagen in the 60s. there, they decided to inculcate populist bicycling, now a third of trips in copenhagen are undertaken by bicycle.
impressive. but there's little room for spandex in a paceline of bakkfiets ridden by mothers in far more stylish garb than the typical american bike commuter uniform of yellowjackets on a bike with enough lights to signal outer space & distracted drivers.
Yellow jackets squeezed into spandex and breathlessly bolstering their mettle by dogmatically repeating 'we ride like cars, dangnabit!' is a clear cut case of a dysfunctional transportation paradigm.
Last edited by Bekologist; 03-29-10 at 08:19 AM.
03-29-10, 08:22 AM
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No doubt.
American society could do much to 'normalize' bicycling. Conducive road infrastructure is a large part of this.
Popularizing greater participation in roadway bicycling as a political agenda is a positive position for bicyclists -
unless you stand against greater participation in lawful road bicycling in this country.
less yellowjacket, more high heels
American society could do much to 'normalize' bicycling. Conducive road infrastructure is a large part of this.
Popularizing greater participation in roadway bicycling as a political agenda is a positive position for bicyclists -
unless you stand against greater participation in lawful road bicycling in this country.
less yellowjacket, more high heels
Last edited by Bekologist; 03-29-10 at 08:28 AM.
03-29-10, 08:50 AM
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a) look good
b) look like they're having fun
advertising for any product or service revolves around this principle: good looking people smiling while using the product. if it works for global capitalism, it will probably work for us.
03-29-10, 09:09 AM
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Let's consider seriously how to increase the mode share of "non-avid" cyclists.
Those "non-avid" cyclists who are disinterested in the exercise benefits of cycling, and who do not want to sweat in their ordinary clothing, will be more likely to cycle if the trip distances are short, the routes are pleasant for cycling at low speeds, and bike parking is convenient.
The best way to use public policy to shorten trip distances is to encourage land use planning that places complementary land uses (housing, shopping, work) in close proximity. This has been a significant obstacle in the suburbs where strong separation of uses was promoted for decades. In areas with mixed uses or close proximity of complementary uses, there is much more bicycle transportation. This occurs in many urban areas and in some pockets of suburbs.
Another way to shorten trip distances and also make cycling more pleasant is to provide low-traffic routes that are as direct as possible between adjacent complementary land uses. For example, a 25 mph street that connects a residential neighborhood directly with a shopping center/commercial district will see much more non-avid cyclists than will a street topology where a 50 mph arterial is the only connection between complementary land uses. Short-cut multi-use paths can also function to this end.
Bike parking that is located near business entrances and under awnings/roof extensions (instead of behind the building or out in the rain) also make cycling easier and more pleasant.
These are improvements that benefit both avid and casual/occasional cyclists. Avid cyclists support them; there is no conflict between the most useful engineering improvements for casual cyclists and the desires of avid cyclists.
But the fact is, avid cyclists will always be more willing to overcome obstacles to cycling than will casual/occasional cyclists. Avid cyclists love cycling for the sake of cycling. In places where cycling is inconvenient (especially compared to motoring) and avid cyclists are the majority of people who cycle, the problem isn't the avid cyclists.
Those "non-avid" cyclists who are disinterested in the exercise benefits of cycling, and who do not want to sweat in their ordinary clothing, will be more likely to cycle if the trip distances are short, the routes are pleasant for cycling at low speeds, and bike parking is convenient.
The best way to use public policy to shorten trip distances is to encourage land use planning that places complementary land uses (housing, shopping, work) in close proximity. This has been a significant obstacle in the suburbs where strong separation of uses was promoted for decades. In areas with mixed uses or close proximity of complementary uses, there is much more bicycle transportation. This occurs in many urban areas and in some pockets of suburbs.
Another way to shorten trip distances and also make cycling more pleasant is to provide low-traffic routes that are as direct as possible between adjacent complementary land uses. For example, a 25 mph street that connects a residential neighborhood directly with a shopping center/commercial district will see much more non-avid cyclists than will a street topology where a 50 mph arterial is the only connection between complementary land uses. Short-cut multi-use paths can also function to this end.
Bike parking that is located near business entrances and under awnings/roof extensions (instead of behind the building or out in the rain) also make cycling easier and more pleasant.
These are improvements that benefit both avid and casual/occasional cyclists. Avid cyclists support them; there is no conflict between the most useful engineering improvements for casual cyclists and the desires of avid cyclists.
But the fact is, avid cyclists will always be more willing to overcome obstacles to cycling than will casual/occasional cyclists. Avid cyclists love cycling for the sake of cycling. In places where cycling is inconvenient (especially compared to motoring) and avid cyclists are the majority of people who cycle, the problem isn't the avid cyclists.
03-29-10, 09:33 AM
#20
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Seriously, we need to make cycling appear mainstream, that someone in street clothes can just hop on a bicycle and ride. You don't need a helmet, neon vest, clipless pedals, etc to be a cyclist in a city.
That said, the above items don't hurt at all and if they make you feel comfortable or even encourage you to ride, all the more power to you!
03-29-10, 10:01 AM
#21
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But the fact is, avid cyclists will always be more willing to overcome obstacles to cycling than will casual/occasional cyclists. Avid cyclists love cycling for the sake of cycling. In places where cycling is inconvenient (especially compared to motoring) and avid cyclists are the majority of people who cycle, the problem isn't the avid cyclists.
03-29-10, 10:03 AM
#22
You gonna eat that?
many people riding a bicycle for utility/transportation, most people who cycle are hardly avid. Do they cycle in the dark? Do they always cycle on the road? Do they cycle in any part of the city? At any time of year?
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi 
"However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
03-29-10, 10:08 AM
#23
You gonna eat that?
Great, great.... someone has a different outlook than you, so you ridicule and marginalize them? Isn't that what the motorists do to cyclists?
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
03-29-10, 10:23 AM
#24
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So what color T shirt should I have bought to commute in? Choices were: black, dark blue, white, neon orange, neon lime/yellow.
03-29-10, 10:26 AM
#25
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Am I still allowed to use Avid brakes and stuff?
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey