Pratt

Welcome.
Maelochs (#8) said it well. I would only add, the one that fits you best.
Even if you buy the "perfect" bike, it won't stay perfect, because it will change you and you will come to value and desire different properties, or a different balance of properties.
The alert reader will have noted, many here own more than one bike. Some even own "n" bikes where "n" is a surprisingly large number. This is not (necessarily) a sickness, but an appreciation of different qualities of ride, appropriateness for different activities, etc.
That is one of the great things about bikes and riding them.
Enjoy!

Pete154

What would be the better bike out of the trek DS1 gen4 or marin San Rafael ds1??

Ttom

Spending a little more than you wanted to is far better than not spending enough. Find a bike that you really like a suck it up. This is a long term purchase and you want to get it right.

Maelochs

Busy now but I will try to look later.

You have enough posts, so if you can please include links so we know we are looking a the right bikes.

Also, please know .... "better" for you might not be what I think it is. And sometimes the only difference might be, "Which one do You like better." Sometimes the only real difference is the color.

Anyway, give me a couple hours please.

Pete154

Thank you Maelochs. Just Google the names I've posted they are the exact name of each bike. The trek is 650$ and marin DS1 is 599$. Basically based on the parts which is better? I really like how the trek has the brake wiring running inside the frame very clean looking. As you mentioned they could both be equal in quality and therefore I can just go by the look.

Maelochs

Freaking BF ate my post.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...gen-4/p/35060/
---30 pounds, 63-mm fork, 2x8 Altus and Tourney, 46/30x11-32, mech disc brakes, 160 mm rotor, 40-mm tires, max 45-mm tires ….

https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2021-san-rafael-ds1
---no listed weight but I bet about the same as the Trek, exact same 63-mm fork, 2x7 gearing, 46-30x11-34, mech disc brakes, 160 mm rotor, 40 mm tires

These are practically identical bikes. The only real difference is a minor upgrade on the Trek's drive train, but foe what you want, it probably wouldn't matter (I guess.)

The real big difference is that you can get the Marin for about 15% cheaper, possibly. That extra cash can go to bottle cages and bottles, a rack, or a seat bag, a mini-pump and spare tube ... whatever. And if you wanted, somewhere down the road, you could possibly slap an 8-speed cassette and rear shifter on the thing ... not sure I would even bother.

These bikes are so similar, to me the issue is more, Which one do You like? If one has a better paint job or something ... that could be the deciding factor.

If money is a factor ... to me the Marin delivers 95% of the bike for 85% of the cost .... but that is based purely what on I see online, and I really have no idea.

Another key issue is, which bike shop treats you better? Since you will likely be going back for the occasional tune-up or cable replacement (if you don't do your own) then you want a shop which respects all its customers and not one where only the guys dropping ten grand on a bike every other year get good treatment.

Really tough choice ... glad it is your choice and not mine.

Pete154

Will the gearing difference matter when it comes to speed? Also when you say I can get the marin for 15%cheaper how so is there a sale on them? Every where I look says 599..i do like the look of the frame on the trek and color and how the cabling is routed inside the frame really cool details but is it worth the extra 50$bucks? I have yet to test drive the trek but that is what I plan to do today. I did test drive the Marin and really really loved it almost bought it on the spot lol I don't like waiting around when I need something lol

Maelochs

https://bikeshopcalifornia.com/produ...an-rafael-ds1/ $519. Not sure what it would cost to have it shipped to wherever you are ... but maybe you could get a break by showing the ad to the local dealer?

The Trek seems to list for between $650 and $690, and the Marin about $100 less ... which is about 15% by my sloppy calculations. Whatever. I checked a few sites for each, that seems to be the trend.

According to what I saw .. . let me double-check ..... Yeah, both have 46-30 cranksets and 11-tooth small cogs so both have the same top-end gearing. One of the bikes you suggested earlier had a 48-tooth big ring which would be whatever ... four percent faster, or 21 vs. 20 mph at a good cruising cadence ... in other words, almost identical. But that was the Trek with a rigid fork. The Dual Sport has the same gearing as the Marin at the top end. The Marin has a very slightly lower gear ... so maybe one or two percent easier on the toughest hills.

If you like the Marin ... great. Ride the trek, and buy the one that looks better to you. They are very close to being identical bikes ... on paper. Ride them and then you can make a real comparison.

VegasTriker

If you want to compare gearing on two or more bikes the easiest way is to use a gear calculator like that offered by the late Sheldon Brown https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html. I like to use the results in "gear inches" an easier way for me to see the difference. If you plug in the values for the two bikes you are comparing, the differences are pretty small. The high gear is almost identical 114.2 to 115.5 gear inches and low gear 24.1 to 25.9 GI. One bike has 14 speeds and the other has 16 speeds. You need to know the values for all of the sprockets on the cassette to see if there is some overlap. You always will find some gears with similar gear inches when you switch from one chainring to the other. You really don't get 14 or 16 gears evenly spaced apart. If you live in hilly country, having a reasonable low gear is worth having.

I'm not a fan of suspension forks on an entry level bike. Most entry level suspension forks are there more as a selling point for the salesman. I'd rather get a bike with no suspension, better components, and lighter weight. I own two older mountain bikes, one with a Manitou suspension fork and the other with a rigid fork. The last time I took out either bike it was the one without the suspension, mainly because it was lighter. Both bikes have way better than entry level components. It's just more fun to ride the lighter bike.

The Trek dual sport is a tad heavier than my very first road bike. I got spoiled owning it and a few years later spent an entire month's wages to buy a high quality 21 pound road bike (with employee discount while working part time at a bike shop). It was well worth it as that bike served me for several decades. I do my own maintenance. It costs little to maintain a high quality bike compared to the cheapest bikes.

Pete154

Great find on price. However shipping is likely minimum of 50. I will try to see if the shop will match but it's also a different color. I really liked the black. I also got a message from trek about a huge discount coming in March. I might wait to see on the discount. So your basically saying the trek and marin are pretty much on the same level in quality eventho the trek is more expensive?
https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=marin-san-rafael-ds1-2022%2Ctrek-dual-sport-1-2021%2Cgiant-roam-4-disc-2021
What does the link above mean when it says the marin can get a higher speed compared to the giant and trek DS1?

Pete154

I enjoyed doing light jumps with the bike as well so I was thinking some kind of suspension is good for that..? I also was told you could get a bike that can lock the suspension when it's not needed?

Maelochs

As far as the chart on the site you mentioned ... no clue. Unless the Marin were many pounds heavier ... the Trek and the Marin have the same top gear, 46x11, and I see no reason why one should be faster using the exact same gearing.

The Trek has a triple ring (in this comparison ... didn't see that on the model I looked at) and both bikes are otherwise the same, so it is hard to imagine that the Marin could weight that much more ... so i have no idea what they are on about.

Okay. got it.

The Trek they tested did Not have the 46-30 double chain ring on the one I linked to---the one on Trek's site. The one 99spokes tested has a 48/38/28 triple ... that would be the five percent speed increase I mentioned. Since I got my info from Trek, I assume it is up-to-date and that 99spoke tested a 2021 or 2022 model, but I am not sure.

When you test the Trek ask the person about the chain ring size ... or just look. If there are two front gears (chain rings) then it is probably a 46-30 ... the number should be stamped or printed on the chain ring somewhere. if it has three chain rings you have a 48-38-28--probably---which will be about five percent faster if you go flat-out crazy ... I doubt the difference is six mph like 99spokes says, but whatever. I don't know where they got the numbers.

Not sure about a lockout, but i doubt the Suntour NEX fork has one .... they tend to be features on much more expensive forks, and also on longer-travel forks. I doubt you would lose too much energy with a 63-mm fork.

Pete154

Test drove the giant, trek then again the marin. The marin still felt the best for some reason.. So that's what I got

Maelochs

Awesome. Now post pics and ride reports.

Really, no matter what the numbers say, if one bike speaks to you, that's the one. You made a good choice.

Pete154

You were totally right. I test drove the marin first and my gut said this is the one without ever testing any others.. but I still wanted to give the other big names a try. I don't know what it was but the trek and the giant just felt off.. I gotta say the marin looks amazing in this gloss black with Grey decals!! Now I'm scared to leave this bike outside. I only have room to keep it in my back yard I would normally keep a lock on my old schwinn taf but didn't care anymore about it lol might have to keep this bike in my bedroom haha

Pete154

Wow. I couldn't even get close to these numbers on my schwinn taff..crazy how light & effortless this bike feels!!
Also going into the wind I was doing a steady 16mph & it felt effortless. On the taf I was brought to a crawl lol
The ride feels amazing.. This is what I've always been looking for in a bike!