It just doesnt make any sense
11-02-21, 09:27 AM
#276
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11-02-21, 09:30 AM
#277
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"Hybrids" or whatever people choose to call them (as far as I recall) came about After MTBs became mainstream--and MTBs took up triples very early on---way before suspension---because off-road riders realized they needed really low gears to climb steep hills but still wanted to hammer on the flats. 48-38-28 morphed into 42-32-22 as I recall (having owned one of each) ... with the 42 thing coming in around the same time as suspension.
Then manufacturers realized that a lot of people were buying MTBs and riding them on the road---probably because they were flat-bar bikes, which a lot of people wanted. Eventually "hybrids" or "city bikes" or whatever were offered--slightly more road-oriented, less robust and less heavy MTB-style bikes with narrower tires, tread but no knobs, and more road-oriented gearing (48-38-28) and with lighter, smaller-diameter short-travel front forks (back when 80 mm was a lot of travel.)
Hybrids are still about the only lace where triples are offered. However, most people who are buying hybrids are not "serious" riders, in that they never intend to use the equipment anywhere near its limits .... and those folks aren't interested in what tier of components they have. They aren't about to pay another several thousand dollars for Ultegra or whatever .... they are fine with the low-tier components which work well enough for the lower-stress applications.
You can find lots of brand-new "Shimano-equipped" hybrids with triples, but they are all lower-end parts.
Then manufacturers realized that a lot of people were buying MTBs and riding them on the road---probably because they were flat-bar bikes, which a lot of people wanted. Eventually "hybrids" or "city bikes" or whatever were offered--slightly more road-oriented, less robust and less heavy MTB-style bikes with narrower tires, tread but no knobs, and more road-oriented gearing (48-38-28) and with lighter, smaller-diameter short-travel front forks (back when 80 mm was a lot of travel.)
Hybrids are still about the only lace where triples are offered. However, most people who are buying hybrids are not "serious" riders, in that they never intend to use the equipment anywhere near its limits .... and those folks aren't interested in what tier of components they have. They aren't about to pay another several thousand dollars for Ultegra or whatever .... they are fine with the low-tier components which work well enough for the lower-stress applications.
You can find lots of brand-new "Shimano-equipped" hybrids with triples, but they are all lower-end parts.
So basically, we're going to take a "no true Scotsman" approach to the history of triples that pretty much ignores the largest share of the demand for them because people who bought them and hybrids generally weren't "serious" enough for our consideration?
There was a while there (way more than a decade, actually) where hybrids weren't automatically considered low-end "unserious" bicycles except by a small minority of "roadies". The reputation of the category has been harmed so much by later developments that I think people are just editing that bit of history out.
It's just an observation that the omission is odd. I really don't want to bring our kidneys and bladders into this so I probably won't respond to your inevitable haranguing.
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11-02-21, 09:49 AM
#278
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This whole thread is nothing but a online version of cockfighting. The experienced long time member OP knew exactly what the result would be and the usual suspects jump in. Classic is the idiot who throws in “The Alpes aren’t steep” comment. A vast majority of this forum are nothing but trolling threads to debate known contentious issues. I mean really, 3x9 drivetrains are something anyone other than some nostalgic old timer is looking for? With that I am out, maybe will check into the forum in a few months or so but time to move on. Nothing to see here.
11-02-21, 09:57 AM
#279
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Thanks for explaining that. I see how you are coming up with the numbers 14 and 15 now, but I think we're comparing different things. See what Maelochs said. I am a special-needs rider.
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11-02-21, 10:00 AM
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No argument with this. But I think the need for both super-low and super-high gearing simultaneously is actually a rare requirement. I expect a modern 2x11 or 2x12 would suit most guys looking for a Touring setup eg. Shimano GRX. The only small sacrifice is a bit of top end gearing that most people would never use anyway. 2x12 gives you a lot of gears to play with over a pretty wide range. 3x12 gives you even more of course, but who really needs that much resolution? People on this thread lamenting the passing of 3x drivetrains are mostly talking about older 3x9 setups, where a triple still made some sense over a 2x9.
11-02-21, 10:02 AM
#282
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11-02-21, 11:00 AM
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11-02-21, 11:01 AM
#285
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So basically, we're going to take a "no true Scotsman" approach to the history of triples that pretty much ignores the largest share of the demand for them because people who bought them and hybrids generally weren't "serious" enough for our consideration?
There was a while there (way more than a decade, actually) where hybrids weren't automatically considered low-end "unserious" bicycles except by a small minority of "roadies". The reputation of the category has been harmed so much by later developments that I think people are just editing that bit of history out.
It's just an observation that the omission is odd. I really don't want to bring our kidneys and bladders into this so I probably won't respond to your inevitable haranguing.
There was a while there (way more than a decade, actually) where hybrids weren't automatically considered low-end "unserious" bicycles except by a small minority of "roadies". The reputation of the category has been harmed so much by later developments that I think people are just editing that bit of history out.
It's just an observation that the omission is odd. I really don't want to bring our kidneys and bladders into this so I probably won't respond to your inevitable haranguing.
Last edited by PeteHski; 11-02-21 at 11:08 AM.
11-02-21, 11:11 AM
#287
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11-02-21, 11:35 AM
#288
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11-02-21, 11:47 AM
#289
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High-end hybrids are called gravel now and have either doubles or singles. Low-end hybrids are still called hybrids or maybe fitness bikes and you can still find 3x7 at the very bottom of the range.
Real loaded touring bikes still come with triples. The Trek 520 and LHT come with a Sora/Alvio 3x9, and the REI and Kona touring bikes have Deore 3x10.
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11-02-21, 11:48 AM
#290
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Sort of, as Maelochs noted, the big chain ring was usually larger on a hybrid than you'd find on a MTB. But I think that's some of the reason for the poor repute of triples now. Hybrids were basically not well-suited to MTB use, so the triple wasn't really serving much purpose.
BTW, I'm actually a fan of good hybrids. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this thread who's ridden one more than 150 miles in a day several times.
11-02-21, 11:51 AM
#291
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11-02-21, 11:52 AM
#292
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11-02-21, 12:00 PM
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As I recall, shimano marketed their triple groups as hybrid/mountain in the US with the lower end aimed more at hybrid and the higher end more mountain, but they were all in the same range.
High-end hybrids are called gravel now and have either doubles or singles. Low-end hybrids are still called hybrids or maybe fitness bikes and you can still find 3x7 at the very bottom of the range.
Real loaded touring bikes still come with triples. The Trek 520 and LHT come with a Sora/Alvio 3x9, and the REI and Kona touring bikes have Deore 3x10.
High-end hybrids are called gravel now and have either doubles or singles. Low-end hybrids are still called hybrids or maybe fitness bikes and you can still find 3x7 at the very bottom of the range.
Real loaded touring bikes still come with triples. The Trek 520 and LHT come with a Sora/Alvio 3x9, and the REI and Kona touring bikes have Deore 3x10.
11-02-21, 12:04 PM
#294
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Sort of, as Maelochs noted, the big chain ring was usually larger on a hybrid than you'd find on a MTB. But I think that's some of the reason for the poor repute of triples now. Hybrids were basically not well-suited to MTB use, so the triple wasn't really serving much purpose.
BTW, I'm actually a fan of good hybrids. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this thread who's ridden one more than 150 miles in a day several times.
BTW, I'm actually a fan of good hybrids. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one on this thread who's ridden one more than 150 miles in a day several times.
11-02-21, 12:31 PM
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11-02-21, 12:40 PM
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For my road touring drop bar, I managed to make 3x10 work with Tiagra shifters and a MTB triple crank - that was a dream to ride long distances, but I wish you could get a 3x11 drop bar setup in a 73mm BB Hollowtech...
For my road touring flat bar, I currently run a 3x10 and it works for me.
For my mtb, I had dropper post and shock lockout on the left controls, and to have a shifter there as well takes up a lot of bar, so a 1x12 makes way more sense since I'm not so worried about long flat roads.
For my road touring flat bar, I currently run a 3x10 and it works for me.
For my mtb, I had dropper post and shock lockout on the left controls, and to have a shifter there as well takes up a lot of bar, so a 1x12 makes way more sense since I'm not so worried about long flat roads.
11-02-21, 12:43 PM
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11-02-21, 01:47 PM
#299
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11-03-21, 02:16 AM
#300
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12 speed cassettes are still relatively more expensive than they're 8-11 counterparts and I don't think anyone would argue that fact. If you want a wide range you can buy an 1130 which is one tier down goes 11-42 and is in the $40-$50 range and will get cheaper every year like all old standards do.
In the end some like triples and will keep the niche alive, some like 1x which is hot right now, some like both, and both have valid use cases. I can still buy the full spectrum of square taper bottom brackets and those haven't been the standard in 15 years.
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