More gasoline on the fire - Electronic Shifting
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A friend of mine who had recently graduated from medical school was doing a rotation in an emergency ward when a guy in a coma was wheeled in on a stretcher. He'd been in a high-speed motorcycle crash and had many broken bones and a lot of very serious internal injuries. Whether he was going to survive was touch and go for a while.
When he came out of his coma, several days later, nearly the first thing the guy said was, "Thank God I wasn't wearing a helmet! I'd have broken my neck for sure!"
(Didn't read the whole thread, so I hope this story doesn't offend anyone.)
#177
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I've got plenty of mechanical watches, but I don't really equate those with shifting gear on a bike.
I do quite like the click, click action of SRAM 1x mechanical mtb trigger shifts, but floppy road brifters not so much, especially when shifting the front mech up. That is not a very nice mechanical feel to me. So I was happy to go electronic there.
I do quite like the click, click action of SRAM 1x mechanical mtb trigger shifts, but floppy road brifters not so much, especially when shifting the front mech up. That is not a very nice mechanical feel to me. So I was happy to go electronic there.
I suppose the one thing they have in common is I'm able to work on both of them.
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I cannot rebuild a brifter. I can replace major parts or parts groups, but I cannot even find a decent schematic or a supplier for all the tiny internal workings ..... I forget which year Shimano moved over to brifters which you couldn't open right up and disassemble, but it happened, and the new ones .... nope, not me.
#179
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Interesting, I've never had that problem nor known anyone who did. I've had other issues though. My first RD just stopped responding completely, and I had issues with two other RDs where the chain would fall between the cage and the lower pulley and wear away the carbon. As it wore, the problem would get worse and worse as it would more easily jump into the gap. The AXS/A2 RD design is leaps and bounds better than the first gen etap. At least I never had an etap RD eat away the knuckle that holds the cage on...
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Or more like what would cause it with an indexed mechanical system: most likely cable tension adjustment or hanger adjustment. Both can be issues with ETap shifting and both can be dealt with (micro adjust ~ cable tension; hanger alignment is more critical the more sprockets involved). Just wondering. I've had far, far less fussiness or issues with our two AXS bikes than the Shimano and Sram 10 speed mechanical bikes we have (although those are pretty much trouble free too).
Last edited by Camilo; 02-22-23 at 01:04 AM.
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We can't link to other forums, but if you search "SRAM queued shifts" you'll see descriptions. You request a shift, it doesn't happen, try again in case it miscommunicated. Try a few more times, then it suddenly does all the shifts at once and you have a much higher or lower gear than expected.
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Never knew there was so many SRAM just on bike forums. Open up a tab with the following:
sram shifting issues site:www.bikeforums.net
sram shifting issues site:www.bikeforums.net
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Some mechanics mistakenly apply dielectric grease to the AXS transmitter, this causes queued shifts. There is a special grease for photons. Seriously......
Search weightweiners for a thread. None of my bike have gunked up lube inside and all over the RD, cuz I use hot melt wax.
Search weightweiners for a thread. None of my bike have gunked up lube inside and all over the RD, cuz I use hot melt wax.
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Also, electronic shifting is amazing on tri/TT bikes.
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Well, between a click button on my STI levers and having to push a lever a few inches in order to move a cable to change gears, the first one is the best IMO. I can handle the extra weight of electronic groupsets, just like I can handle the extra weight of disc brakes.
Not to mention that electronic groupsets require very little maintenance as compared to mechanical groupsets
Not to mention that electronic groupsets require very little maintenance as compared to mechanical groupsets
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The maintenance issue is probably the biggest attraction .... I understand (from people who would know and whose experience i respect) that electronic shifts better but I can make mech shifters work just fine, so ... the idea of never having to index a derailleur or wonder how my cables are holding up or spin a barrel adjuster when the bike starts missing shifts ... I have no problem keeping batteries charged in cameras, flash units, headlights, tail lights, my phone, my laptop .... why would a derailleur battery be so hard to keep charged?
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It's not. You can check the battery level before every ride.
Unless someone lives off the grid and doesn't have access to electricity (or is planning a multi-day ride under similar circumstances) this is an imaginary problem.
Unless someone lives off the grid and doesn't have access to electricity (or is planning a multi-day ride under similar circumstances) this is an imaginary problem.
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It's not. Yet, a friend of mine is notoriously bad about remembering to recharge his Di2, and has been stuck with a non-shifting RD during a ride more than once. I realize this is a user issue, not a problem with electronic shifting as a system.
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Not to get into a Di2 vs Etap debate because they're both good, but other than the wireless ease of installation, the Etap system might be easier to avoid discharged battery issues. First, since you expect the batteries to not last as long, you might tend to charge them more routinely. And since there are two batteries, if one fails in the ride, you can switch them and get enough gearing to get home. But most important - the batteries are relatively cheap and very small, so it's easy to keep a spare in the saddle bag or wherever you keep your normal ride supplies (spare tube, multi tool, CO2, etc). Our habit is the first (regular, routine-ish charging). We keep spares in our saddle bags, but have never used them.
Last edited by Camilo; 02-22-23 at 03:42 PM.
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Not to get into a Di2 vs Etap debate because they're both good, but other than the wireless ease of installation, the Etap system might be easier to avoid discharged battery issues. First, since you expect the batteries to not last as long, you might tend to charge them more routinely. And since there are two batteries, if one fails in the ride, you can switch them and get enough gearing to get home. But most important - the batteries are relatively cheap and very small, so it's easy to keep a spare in the saddle bag or wherever you keep your normal ride supplies (spare tube, multi tool, CO2, etc). Our habit is the first (regular, routine-ish charging). We keep spares in our saddle bags, but have never used them.
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The car analogy you're looking for is power door locks, windows and seats. Manually operated systems for these accomplish the exact same end result, and are more simple, cheaper and do the same thing without all the little motors and sensors. Most people prefer the electronic versions, but I guarantee somewhere out there on a car forum right now you'll find a bunch of vintage car owners railing about how modern cars suck because of all the added weight, expense and complexity of unnecessary electronic gimmicks.
Electronic shifting on bikes is like that. When is the last time you saw a new car with manual locks or windows?
Electronic shifting on bikes is like that. When is the last time you saw a new car with manual locks or windows?
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when it “dies” it also dies for the FD first, into the small ring, so you still have access to a wide range and can climb, you just can’t go fast.
on the other hand, the failure mode of a broken cable is walking home / calling a lyft.
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#193
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I have two bikes with eTap so I have 4 batteries. I always check before I ride, and if it is low I swap with the other bike and throw the low one on the charger. I use both bikes enough, I have never ran out since I started using this system.
I did end up having to do this, once, when I was fairly new to eTap and before I had extra batteries to rotate through as outlined above.
I did end up having to do this, once, when I was fairly new to eTap and before I had extra batteries to rotate through as outlined above.
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The maintenance issue is probably the biggest attraction .... I understand (from people who would know and whose experience i respect) that electronic shifts better but I can make mech shifters work just fine, so ... the idea of never having to index a derailleur or wonder how my cables are holding up or spin a barrel adjuster when the bike starts missing shifts ... I have no problem keeping batteries charged in cameras, flash units, headlights, tail lights, my phone, my laptop .... why would a derailleur battery be so hard to keep charged?
The main problem with all bikes today and shifting is how soft the derailleur hangers are.
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You haven't changed a cable in ten years? You must not ride it much.
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i have to wonder if the people who prefer modern mechanical to electronic drivetrains have just never actually used one. or maybe they live somewhere with no access to electricity for any purpose? i can get “not worth the cost,” but “not as satisfying to ride?” can’t get my head around that.
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I cannot rebuild a brifter. I can replace major parts or parts groups, but I cannot even find a decent schematic or a supplier for all the tiny internal workings ..... I forget which year Shimano moved over to brifters which you couldn't open right up and disassemble, but it happened, and the new ones .... nope, not me.
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If you've ever used Shimano's downtube or bar-end levers, or Campy's Ultrashift, then you should be able to get your head around it. An indexed non-escapement shift mechanism incorporating a counterspring is a pretty damn satisfying way to shift. You can feel what the chain is doing through the cable on upshifts (pulling the cable), and downshifts on non-escapement shifters feel so much better; think anti-SRAM.
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If you've ever used Shimano's downtube or bar-end levers, or Campy's Ultrashift, then you should be able to get your head around it. An indexed non-escapement shift mechanism incorporating a counterspring is a pretty damn satisfying way to shift. You can feel what the chain is doing through the cable on upshifts (pulling the cable), and downshifts on non-escapement shifters feel so much better; think anti-SRAM.