Trakhak

The wind-down window, obviously. That's why electric windows soon disappeared from the market.

A friend of mine who had recently graduated from medical school was doing a rotation in an emergency ward when a guy in a coma was wheeled in on a stretcher. He'd been in a high-speed motorcycle crash and had many broken bones and a lot of very serious internal injuries. Whether he was going to survive was touch and go for a while.

When he came out of his coma, several days later, nearly the first thing the guy said was, "Thank God I wasn't wearing a helmet! I'd have broken my neck for sure!"

(Didn't read the whole thread, so I hope this story doesn't offend anyone.)

genejockey 

Concur. I like mechanical watches because I love the craft and engineering that went into them. I like mechanical groupsets because they work great and I can't afford the extra $1-2K for electronic.

I suppose the one thing they have in common is I'm able to work on both of them.

Maelochs

I cannot rebuild a brifter. I can replace major parts or parts groups, but I cannot even find a decent schematic or a supplier for all the tiny internal workings ..... I forget which year Shimano moved over to brifters which you couldn't open right up and disassemble, but it happened, and the new ones .... nope, not me.

ummed

Interesting, I've never had that problem nor known anyone who did. I've had other issues though. My first RD just stopped responding completely, and I had issues with two other RDs where the chain would fall between the cage and the lower pulley and wear away the carbon. As it wore, the problem would get worse and worse as it would more easily jump into the gap. The AXS/A2 RD design is leaps and bounds better than the first gen etap. At least I never had an etap RD eat away the knuckle that holds the cage on...

Camilo

What are "queued shifts"? Are we talking about, what in a mechanical system, would be called "ghost shifts"? If so, I wonder what they did to correct the problem. I wonder if it was an electronic or motor problem which would definitely be an electronic shifting problem.

Or more like what would cause it with an indexed mechanical system: most likely cable tension adjustment or hanger adjustment. Both can be issues with ETap shifting and both can be dealt with (micro adjust ~ cable tension; hanger alignment is more critical the more sprockets involved). Just wondering. I've had far, far less fussiness or issues with our two AXS bikes than the Shimano and Sram 10 speed mechanical bikes we have (although those are pretty much trouble free too).

Bah Humbug

We can't link to other forums, but if you search "SRAM queued shifts" you'll see descriptions. You request a shift, it doesn't happen, try again in case it miscommunicated. Try a few more times, then it suddenly does all the shifts at once and you have a much higher or lower gear than expected.

seypat

Never knew there was so many SRAM just on bike forums. Open up a tab with the following:

sram shifting issues site:www.bikeforums.net

GhostRider62

Some mechanics mistakenly apply dielectric grease to the AXS transmitter, this causes queued shifts. There is a special grease for photons. Seriously......

Search weightweiners for a thread. None of my bike have gunked up lube inside and all over the RD, cuz I use hot melt wax.

Bah Humbug

Also, electronic shifting is amazing on tri/TT bikes.

eduskator

Well, between a click button on my STI levers and having to push a lever a few inches in order to move a cable to change gears, the first one is the best IMO. I can handle the extra weight of electronic groupsets, just like I can handle the extra weight of disc brakes.

Not to mention that electronic groupsets require very little maintenance as compared to mechanical groupsets

Maelochs

The maintenance issue is probably the biggest attraction .... I understand (from people who would know and whose experience i respect) that electronic shifts better but I can make mech shifters work just fine, so ... the idea of never having to index a derailleur or wonder how my cables are holding up or spin a barrel adjuster when the bike starts missing shifts ... I have no problem keeping batteries charged in cameras, flash units, headlights, tail lights, my phone, my laptop .... why would a derailleur battery be so hard to keep charged?

msu2001la

It's not. You can check the battery level before every ride.

Unless someone lives off the grid and doesn't have access to electricity (or is planning a multi-day ride under similar circumstances) this is an imaginary problem.

Eric F 

It's not. Yet, a friend of mine is notoriously bad about remembering to recharge his Di2, and has been stuck with a non-shifting RD during a ride more than once. I realize this is a user issue, not a problem with electronic shifting as a system.

Camilo

Not to get into a Di2 vs Etap debate because they're both good, but other than the wireless ease of installation, the Etap system might be easier to avoid discharged battery issues. First, since you expect the batteries to not last as long, you might tend to charge them more routinely. And since there are two batteries, if one fails in the ride, you can switch them and get enough gearing to get home. But most important - the batteries are relatively cheap and very small, so it's easy to keep a spare in the saddle bag or wherever you keep your normal ride supplies (spare tube, multi tool, CO2, etc). Our habit is the first (regular, routine-ish charging). We keep spares in our saddle bags, but have never used them.

Eric F 

My buddy would end up with 2 discharged batteries in his hands - LOL.

Kimmo

Except it's not like that because it doesn't add weight.

mschwett 

i‘ve only used the latest di2, but the battery lasts months. thousands of miles. it would have to be a seriously long tour without access to power!

when it “dies” it also dies for the FD first, into the small ring, so you still have access to a wide range and can climb, you just can’t go fast.

on the other hand, the failure mode of a broken cable is walking home / calling a lyft.

ummed

I have two bikes with eTap so I have 4 batteries. I always check before I ride, and if it is low I swap with the other bike and throw the low one on the charger. I use both bikes enough, I have never ran out since I started using this system.

I did end up having to do this, once, when I was fairly new to eTap and before I had extra batteries to rotate through as outlined above.

Kontact 

The thing is, mechanical shifting shouldn't go out either. I have bikes that the indexing has been good for over a decade.

The main problem with all bikes today and shifting is how soft the derailleur hangers are.

Maelochs

You haven't changed a cable in ten years? You must not ride it much.

Kontact 

Downtube shifters and coil housing.

Kimmo

If you've ever used Shimano's downtube or bar-end levers, or Campy's Ultrashift, then you should be able to get your head around it. An indexed non-escapement shift mechanism incorporating a counterspring is a pretty damn satisfying way to shift. You can feel what the chain is doing through the cable on upshifts (pulling the cable), and downshifts on non-escapement shifters feel so much better; think anti-SRAM.

georges1

It was with the dura ace 7900 introduced in 2008, barely repairable, and also aesthetically not as nice as the older ones.

mschwett 

that may well be true. my point of comparison is brifters from the late 90s on, shimano and SRAM. very very functional, not satisfying in the tactile sense that things people are nostalgic for might be.

seypat

Most barcon users seem to prefer Suntours. Not me. The feel, or lack of feel of Shimano L600 first gen DA barcons with the counterspring are hard to beat. You just think it, move the lever and it happens. Absolutely no feel from the lever. The only thing is the sound of the chain moving and the feel of the new sprocket.