"Those Bicyclists Blow Right Through Red Lights!"
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I can't help but chuckle at that. I can only hope that they did it in the name of blind obedience to the law rather than thinking the were accomplishing anything in the name of safety. I have a hunch when they drive their cars they won't be so blindly obedient to the law though.
#277
incazzare.
He can't, because nobody said it.
People have said it's rare, sure, but literally nobody said it doesn't happen ever. He is one of those people who thinks their point is so important, that it's OK to lie when trying to convince others of it.
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#278
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I disregard laws quite frequently in the name of safety, and it is not BS. I'll give you an example. I want to get from my house on Pasadena Ave in Metairie LA to the MS River MUP. I pedal south on Pasadena to its intersection with West Metairie Rd. I need to get to Houma Ave. I have two choices. I can take a right onto W. Metairie travel west all the way down to the next U turn then come back to Houma. That would put me on a high volume narrow 4 lane road that rarely sees any bicycle traffic with 40-45 MPH vehicular traffic for a total of about a half mile. Or I can take a quick right on W Metairie, shoot across the the nearby U turn then wait for a break in traffic and go the wrong way down W Metairie for about 100 yards to Houma. The way the traffic lights are timed, I can always get a reasonable break in traffic to do the 100 yard wrong way sprint. Take a look at it on Google maps and you will see what I am talking about. I can assure you it is much safer for me to go down the wrong side of the street for 100 yards than it is for me to try to mingle with traffic for that half mile. I can go on and on giving examples of how breaking the law is safer than complying.
#279
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So what did you think about the situation I laid out? Would you ride the extra distance with the masses of fast moving vehicles or would you wait for a break and do a 100 yard wrong way sprint?
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When I take liberties, its because it's quicker, and easier than doing the right thing.
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(p.s. The speed limit on W. Metairie is 35 mph.)
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 05-20-16 at 11:29 AM.
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Safe is a tricky term to define. The alternatives involve riding for a short period of time on Airline highway. I do NOT want to do that. Other alternatives involve using the sidewalk for a short distance. I don't mind using the sidewalk for short stretches, but I don't like the sidewalk adjacent to Airline as there are a number of parking lots. When I take the wrong way leg it is absolutely because it is the safest route. When I ride, I ride for exercise, so to take a shortcut because it's less work is nonsensical to my way of thinking.
#283
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Thanks for putting effort into your response by looking at the map. If you hop onto Anthony you have to ride across a short stretch of grassy area. It appears to be maintained by the homeowners across Anthony St as the grass gets cut at the same time. I don't want to risk riding across a person's private property. A satellite map will show you what I am talking about. Trust me when I tel you traffic moves at 40-45 on W Metairie.
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Thanks for putting effort into your response by looking at the map. If you hop onto Anthony you have to ride across a short stretch of grassy area. It appears to be maintained by the homeowners across Anthony St as the grass gets cut at the same time. I don't want to risk riding across a person's private property. A satellite map will show you what I am talking about. Trust me when I tel you traffic moves at 40-45 on W Metairie.
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I looked at the map, and saw just that, a map showing countless options without any context to support any opinion. I'll just say I have a hard time believing there's no viable routes available for someone unconcerned with time, distance, or effort.
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Thanks for putting effort into your response by looking at the map. If you hop onto Anthony you have to ride across a short stretch of grassy area. It appears to be maintained by the homeowners across Anthony St as the grass gets cut at the same time. I don't want to risk riding across a person's private property. A satellite map will show you what I am talking about. Trust me when I tel you traffic moves at 40-45 on W Metairie.
Also, I totally trust you that traffic goes faster than 35 mph.
I also trust you aren't the only sprinting salmon in Louisiana.
(p.s. The sidewalks to nowhere on the north side of W. Metairie are somewhat amusing. No matter - you would apparently walk in the street.)
-mr. bill
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And I didn't tell him what to do. I told him what *I* would do.
-mr. bill
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Any other option puts you on Airline. I will not ride on Airline. I live in a really crappy area to just hop on the bike and go. I'd love it if there were a viable option.
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You'd know, had you read the evidence I've previously studied, that some of the research considered yielding without stopping, not exactly obeying Idaho stop laws. No evidence was found for increased risk.
You on the other hand do not seem to be willing to accept data that contradicts YOUR deeply held belief that your version of the Idaho Stop is "always" safe, so given that you are NOT truly performing the Idaho Stop as described in the law of the Idaho Stop why should we be listening to you?
Congratulations! Your inability to apply basic logic and reason to your posts has made you the first person ever on my block list!
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I am NOT going to go digging through all of the posts but it IS there either Jaywalker or Equnox(sp) or both of them have repeatedly tried to tell us that we didn't see what we thought we've seen or that we've somehow have "misinterpreted" what we've seen. Just go back and look for yourself, because I seriously doubt that you'll believe it unless you do.
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This is always a stupid debate supported by a few self centered people.
I won't claim to never take liberties, but claiming its ok, and correct to blow lights for "safety" reasons is total BS. What a few are able to get away with because they're an anomaly doesn't represent what works for the greater good.
I won't claim to never take liberties, but claiming its ok, and correct to blow lights for "safety" reasons is total BS. What a few are able to get away with because they're an anomaly doesn't represent what works for the greater good.
Some just don't seem to get that.
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I suggest that you go back and re-read it, I was referring to those who have said that I somehow "misinterpreted" what I seen while out on my bike.
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No. To no reasonable person does it become fact. At absolute best, it becomes motivation to develop a testable hypothesis (which it already has), so that data can be collected in a systematic manner and rigorous analysis can be done. That has already happened. Your observations have proven to be inconsistent with the data.
While I've looked this up, I haven't read enough about it.
I always yield when required by the laws of man or physics. I don't stop unless necessary to yield. That's the ideal, and is an approximation of the Idaho stop. However, it's not easy to succinctly codify, while the actual Idaho stop law is. I ride to maximize my safety without detriment to other road users, which requires that I disregard some traffic laws.
You'd know, had you read the evidence I've previously studied, that some of the research considered yielding without stopping, not exactly obeying Idaho stop laws. No evidence was found for increased risk.
You'd know, had you read the evidence I've previously studied, that some of the research considered yielding without stopping, not exactly obeying Idaho stop laws. No evidence was found for increased risk.
It is more dangerous than yielding without stopping, which is a relative comparison. That doesn't imply that stopping is dangerous in absolute terms. Bicycling in the US is drastically more dangerous than bicycling in Amsterdam, but in absolute terms, riding on US streets is quite safe.
No, you were supporting the Idaho Stop and when it was pointed out to you that you are NOT performing a true Idaho Stop you've changed what you're supporting.
If another road user is entitled to the right of way, I yield to that road user. If the right of way is mine, then a proceed more quickly than I would otherwise be able if I came to a full and complete stop first. It doesn't get any more predictable than that. My way simply gets everyone through the intersection more quickly.
That's a nice straw man you've built up there. And your accusation that it's me that has ignored the data is truly laughable, especially coming from you, who has acknowledged disregarding data in favor of anecdotes, which is among the most egregious errors in objective research.
Consider the favor returned.
#295
contiuniously variable
This is a common statement made by motorists about bicyclists. I contend this virtually never happens.About the only time I see anything close to this happening is on the streets of Manhattan with bike messengers(mostly) but that place is Thunderdome, so that doesn't count.
When a motorist makes this statement, I have to wonder what we're talking about. I absolutely blow through red lights safely all the time. I'm out on Sunday morning at 8am. I approach a 4-lane 55mph road with a red light. I have unlimited views in either direction. I blow through without slowing down. No problem whatsoever. Same with stop signs. There are cases where it would be ridiculous to stop on a bike. If I think I would put myself in any danger, I stop or slow down.
But what I envision the motorist talking about is a bicyclist riding through an active or busy suburban or urban intersection at speed, with their head down, ignoring the red light and any traffic. I contend this scenario virtually never happens. I know that I have never witnessed it. That would certainly be wrong on the part of the cyclist, absolutely. It would also be tantamount to suicide, and therefore a highly unlikely occurrence.
So, when i talk to a motorist about why they dislike bicycles, and they say, "Because they blow through red lights.", they lose me.
When a motorist makes this statement, I have to wonder what we're talking about. I absolutely blow through red lights safely all the time. I'm out on Sunday morning at 8am. I approach a 4-lane 55mph road with a red light. I have unlimited views in either direction. I blow through without slowing down. No problem whatsoever. Same with stop signs. There are cases where it would be ridiculous to stop on a bike. If I think I would put myself in any danger, I stop or slow down.
But what I envision the motorist talking about is a bicyclist riding through an active or busy suburban or urban intersection at speed, with their head down, ignoring the red light and any traffic. I contend this scenario virtually never happens. I know that I have never witnessed it. That would certainly be wrong on the part of the cyclist, absolutely. It would also be tantamount to suicide, and therefore a highly unlikely occurrence.
So, when i talk to a motorist about why they dislike bicycles, and they say, "Because they blow through red lights.", they lose me.
In all seriousness, road safety involves everyone, including and especially cyclists.
- Andy
#296
contiuniously variable
Also, i motion that we start a cyclist oriented chain of rest stops called "idaho stop" with potato based meals & utensils etc. There could be a mechanic shop, a place to order/purchase parts and clothing, wifi/tv etc lounge, stationary bikes to keep warmed up, water refill stations etc etc.... Doesn't that sound amazing?
- Andy
- Andy
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Also, i motion that we start a cyclist oriented chain of rest stops called "idaho stop" with potato based meals & utensils etc. There could be a mechanic shop, a place to order/purchase parts and clothing, wifi/tv etc lounge, stationary bikes to keep warmed up, water refill stations etc etc.... Doesn't that sound amazing?
- Andy
- Andy
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I know that a bird's eye view on Google may show a different route---in fact I know of two---but until someone has lived it, it may not be a better route. The traffic pattern may suck on those roads; they may be bumpy and in general disrepair; there may be dogs, or the road maybe has no shoulder. Lots of things come into play. Pretty much any road I have not ridden before comes with unanticipated issues. So, I stick to what I know.
I can't imagine how someone 1000 miles away can have a clue which route would be "better."
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Bicyclists would never just blow through a stop sign. Or would they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikyIcoop60
Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikyIcoop60
Cheers
Last edited by Miele Man; 05-21-16 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Tried to get the video to show in the post instead of just a link to it
#300
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Bicyclists would never just blow through a stop sign. Or would they?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikyIcoop60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikyIcoop60
I'm sure you noticed that none of the cars stopped, either.