Are higher-end Shimano groupsets "better" or just lighter?
#51
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OK, so here's what I've taken from the discussions in two threads now as a person who doesn't own either Dura Ace or post-1990s Ultegra:
TI cogs wear faster for some people and not others (this makes sense for me because people's gear usage, etc. will be different).
Other parts last too long for people to live long enough to wear out a decent sized sample of the two groups. At this level, stuff other than chains and cassettes is good for too many decades for the differences (if there are any) to matter. We're probably talking about whether or not the drivetrain will still be in good enough shape to pass on to your grandchildren. Who cares?
People usually like what they have.
TI cogs wear faster for some people and not others (this makes sense for me because people's gear usage, etc. will be different).
Other parts last too long for people to live long enough to wear out a decent sized sample of the two groups. At this level, stuff other than chains and cassettes is good for too many decades for the differences (if there are any) to matter. We're probably talking about whether or not the drivetrain will still be in good enough shape to pass on to your grandchildren. Who cares?
People usually like what they have.
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The newer Ultegra level hubs have exceptional labyrinth seals on their hubs. They also have much better quality cones than in the lower quality hubs.
Now, going the other way, you can get chains with hollow pins and slotted plates. Are those made to be cleaned?
Campagnolo may use high quality ceramic bearings in their Super Record bottom brackets, but the ones I've seen were without seals. So they spin very nicely, but get them contaminated, and they turn crunchy quickly.
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I'm not sure that is exactly true.
The newer Ultegra level hubs have exceptional labyrinth seals on their hubs. They also have much better quality cones than in the lower quality hubs.
Now, going the other way, you can get chains with hollow pins and slotted plates. Are those made to be cleaned?
Campagnolo may use high quality ceramic bearings in their Super Record bottom brackets, but the ones I've seen were without seals. So they spin very nicely, but get them contaminated, and they turn crunchy quickly.
The newer Ultegra level hubs have exceptional labyrinth seals on their hubs. They also have much better quality cones than in the lower quality hubs.
Now, going the other way, you can get chains with hollow pins and slotted plates. Are those made to be cleaned?
Campagnolo may use high quality ceramic bearings in their Super Record bottom brackets, but the ones I've seen were without seals. So they spin very nicely, but get them contaminated, and they turn crunchy quickly.
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Hint: quit using oil.
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Even on the bikes I lube with liquid, I never had a problem cleaning them. Scrape the jockey wheels, and every now and then Simple Green the works and spray it with a weak stream. Never found any aspect of bike maintenance difficult.
I'd like to make jokes about people who find it challenging to clean a bicycle .... but here in PC world I'd probably get sued.
I'd like to make jokes about people who find it challenging to clean a bicycle .... but here in PC world I'd probably get sued.
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Upgrading to Dura Ace would help offset the weight penalty of those valve caps.
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Even on the bikes I lube with liquid, I never had a problem cleaning them. Scrape the jockey wheels, and every now and then Simple Green the works and spray it with a weak stream. Never found any aspect of bike maintenance difficult.
I'd like to make jokes about people who find it challenging to clean a bicycle .... but here in PC world I'd probably get sued.
I'd like to make jokes about people who find it challenging to clean a bicycle .... but here in PC world I'd probably get sued.
blast away.
I'm just particular with how I prefer the drivetrain. Factor in the environment conditions & it's a constant twig/hair/road rocks buffet in the system.
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So, in sum, it's basically a matter of how many "really, really"s you want in front of your superlative.
I'd like to say I'm disappointed that the anti-derailleur people didn't turn up, but.....
I'd like to say I'm disappointed that the anti-derailleur people didn't turn up, but.....
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Do you really get rocks caught in the drive train? No judgment, just curious cuz I've never seen that.
I've never found a little schmutz to be much of a problem, but twigs aren't in there long enough to make it to the end of the ride. I'll stop and pull that crap out.
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My valve caps are part of a theme. You’re just jealous. If you saw my Rat Finks, you’d be really jealous.
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I like to make jokes about people who find it necessary to constantly clean their bikes…
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#64
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Top tier is actually less durable (though gets new technology first that later trickles down) because it's made to be light above all else. 2nd or 3rd tier is probably the sweet spot. Especially if you're not racing. The tech has had time to mature as it trickled down and the components are slightly heavier duty.
I can say Ultegra or XT is probably a better option for most people it works really well and is usually decently cheaper but is not necessarily more or less durable then Dura Ace or XTR. I will say generally Ultegra has always looked a bit better most of the time except maybe in the 9 speed era but that is not a reflection on durability either.
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It’s my Dean’s colors (well the decal colors_ red, blue
yellow, green. If you look at the wheels the color scheme is carried through on the spoke nipples.
Cables have the same scheme. The barend plugs, headset cap, and seatpost clamp also have the same scheme. The shifters have a red shifter paddle, a blue clamp (right), a yellow clamp (left) and a green paddle on the left. Chainring bolts and brake rotor bolts follow the same pattern. You can’t really see it, but even have the cable bumpers in the same color scheme. They were where all the foolishness started.
The Rat Finks on are this bike.
Behold with envy!
yellow, green. If you look at the wheels the color scheme is carried through on the spoke nipples.
Cables have the same scheme. The barend plugs, headset cap, and seatpost clamp also have the same scheme. The shifters have a red shifter paddle, a blue clamp (right), a yellow clamp (left) and a green paddle on the left. Chainring bolts and brake rotor bolts follow the same pattern. You can’t really see it, but even have the cable bumpers in the same color scheme. They were where all the foolishness started.
The Rat Finks on are this bike.
Behold with envy!
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Do you really get rocks caught in the drive train? No judgment, just curious cuz I've never seen that.
I've never found a little schmutz to be much of a problem, but twigs aren't in there long enough to make it to the end of the ride. I'll stop and pull that crap out.
I've never found a little schmutz to be much of a problem, but twigs aren't in there long enough to make it to the end of the ride. I'll stop and pull that crap out.
If I ride 99.99% on the road, I often avoid most debris [except for rocks] . The mups are dumps here.
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Mucky Nutz Gut Fender. Keeps the various biological emanations from various animals from hitting me under the chin. Keeps rocks from hitting me too. This picture was taking in the spring. In the winter, there is usually a SKS Shock Board under the crown. Later in the year both disappear.
Summer togs
DSCN0465 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Winter togs (before the color foolishness and before frame modifications)
DSCN0302 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Summer togs
DSCN0465 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Winter togs (before the color foolishness and before frame modifications)
DSCN0302 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
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Everything is so right about those pictures. He may be a pain on BF, but the guy has awesome taste in bikes and cycling.
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Yes the thumb shifters are still around on bikes, ts evidence that they clearly last a long time(or people dont use the bikes frequently!), but it isnt something anyone buying new needs to think about, and many buying used Sora dont need to worry either at this point.
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I have seen this comment a few times now since each time I click into the thread its at the top of the most recent page. So I cant hold it in anymore- Sora hasnt used a thumb shifter since 2012. Almost a decade of Sora shifters with STI paddles. Its been 2 generations of STI actually. Even Claris has been STI since 2013.
Yes the thumb shifters are still around on bikes, ts evidence that they clearly last a long time(or people dont use the bikes frequently!), but it isnt something anyone buying new needs to think about, and many buying used Sora dont need to worry either at this point.
Yes the thumb shifters are still around on bikes, ts evidence that they clearly last a long time(or people dont use the bikes frequently!), but it isnt something anyone buying new needs to think about, and many buying used Sora dont need to worry either at this point.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I could have sworn that they were bringing Sora thumb shifters back as an STI option.
Notice, though, that I specified "some" Sora brifters. It's definitely something to be aware of if you're looking at used bikes as well as new ones. OP didn't specify that they were looking only at new bikes.
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Thanks…I think?
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I have had bikes with Ultegra and that groupset has worked very well for me. When I bought pedals I just went with 105's. The 105 groupset as a whole is actually very good and the benefit you get from Ultegra and Dura Ace is very small. If I really wanted to improve my bikes performance it would probably be better to drop 10lbs!