Maelochs

Yeah .... if you are friends with the race organizers I guess they let you start early to get a jump on the field.

Find out the organizers' favorite adult beverages and next year maybe they will tell you the real start time ....

msu2001la

Does this event require a USA Cycling license to participate in?

msu2001la

Every 5k/10k I've participated in has been a timed race. There's a clock, and everyone gets a specific time - usually involving chips/sensors. Results are posted, usually by age groups, etc. Prizes are awarded.

I've not seen many "running events" that are not timed.

Sure, there are lots of "cycling events" that aren't races, but the idea that actual bike racing is "taboo" seems weird to me. There are dozens of actual organized bike races in my area including road, criterium, MTB, cyclocross.

downtube42

Indeed, there are organized bike races, sanctioned and run by an organizing body. I've competed in many myself. I've also participated (competed is a bit strong) in 10k run races. The difference between the two types of events is significant, and primarily at the citizen level. In running, you pay your fee and you're in. Compete, jog, walk, whatever, you're in. In cycling, if it's called a bike race, there's an expectation that you don't show up at the start line unless you're a racer.

In other words, a cycling event where non racers show up is called a ride; a run event where non racers show up is called a race.

msu2001la

I think this has more to do with the physics of bike racing compared to running, and maybe a bit related to the culture of the two sports. Cycling might just generally be more competitive than running, but with cycling (mainly road and crit racing), if you're not strong enough to stay with the main group, your race is essentially over (and in the case of crit racing, you'll literally be pulled off the course by an official at most races). So road and crit bike racing has a higher barrier for entry, even at the Cat 5 level than running races (which usually do have time cuts, but depending on the race that is often so low that you could walk the entire thing).

I don't think the same is true for MTB or cyclocross - where drafting isn't as critical to stay in the race. Our local cyclocross series for example has tons of folks who come out for Cat 4/5 fields that are not what I would describe as traditional bike "racers". These are often people who just ride bikes for fun and maybe have done a few group rides and got talked into checking out cyclocross - so they sign up and "race" a few laps for fun, don't care where they finish, etc. I don't participate in MTB racing, but I suspect it's a similar vibe at those races. I also know that this happens at gravel races where informal groups form as the race goes on, and people do these more as social rides than races.

rosefarts

Definitely for road racing.

I’ve done several gravel “races” in the past few years that are only grouped by age, something like 18-55.

Everybody starts, even the guys that are going to win. Roll pavement for a couple miles, roll dirt a couple more, and by the time anything gets serious, the groups are sorted.

The organization of the aid station for the people behind the lead is just the same as a ride. Drinks, snacks, music, lawn chairs, generally chill.

Sure when I eventually finish I can check the results that I was 63rd out of 75 finishers. Sweet racing for sure.

msu2001la

It's worth noting that USA Cycling and UCI have developed policies that allow them to suspend riders who participate in unsanctioned events in response to some of that.
I don't know how this works in reality and suspect it depends on the context, but maybe 10 years ago there was a big dust-up about this in the gravel/CX world (pun intended). Many of those early gravel races were unsanctioned events - and local/grassroots CX events were similarly unsanctioned. I think it's less of an issue now.

RCMoeur 

Nearly all state laws prohibit racing on public roadways. Court cases have explicitly applied this to bicycle races, as bicyclists are legal road users. An event organizer who holds a race or other timed event which could reasonably be interpreted as "racing"; e.g. prizes, recognized placing by speed or time, etc. could be exposing themselves or the racers to citation. They could also be facing serious liability exposure if a racer was injured during the event, as most policies that don't exclude bicycle racing require compliance with laws. An organized or sanctioned race will typically obtain a special event permit for that roadway allowing racing, and the stipulations typically include traffic control to allow the racers to ride at speed without having to disregard traffic control, such as full street closures, flaggers or police at intersections, or a police escort for the main pack. This is why many the registration fees for races and timed events are much higher than that needed to cover prizes, primes, and regular expenses - the traffic control cost can often greatly outstrip all of this. And for really big events like a citywide ride where the government isn't picking up the traffic control cost, such as El Tour de Tucson, the traffic control cost for one day can be approximated as, oh, 50+ UCI World Tour bicycles.

bbbean 

What is a non-competitive race?

downtube42

Likewise, historically at least, Paris Brest Paris would disallow any participants who had active racing licenses. While club jerseys were allowed, sponsorship jerseys were not. To further prevent it being a full-on race, controls have opening times that disallow checking in if overall average speed is greater than 30 kph. Rarely does that end up being a real obstacle, given distances and terrain, but it would limit the benefit of opening a gap.

Many of those rules are gone or no longer enforced. The tip of the event is for sure a race, for prestige.

For non-PBP brevets, control open times are still enforced. I think for PBP it's really a matter of logistics why they don't do that anymore.

msu2001la

That's interesting - I did not know this about PBP, but it makes sense from that perspective of keeping it an event, and not a race.

Maelochs

I have only participated in one 10K ... it was a walk/run for some charity, and I was a bike shepherd .... I rode sweep (because I was slower on the bike than the fastest runners, and able to ride at a walking pace.) Pretty sure there were no chips, bibs, numbers .... might have been time for the first bunches but without chips it is all pretty imaginary if a group finishes together. Maybe it is handled as in cycling ... no appreciable gap, same time but one place lower than the guy ahead?

What Monsieur RCMoeur says about cycling events makes sense ... any kind of competitive event on a public road needs all sorts of fees, insurance, etc. .... I have not seen a charity 5K close a public road unless it was sponsored by a huge healthcare or entertainment corporation .... mostly around parks or on sidewalks.

msu2001la

I'm a member of a local bike race team who runs a handful of crit and cyclocross races each year. I can assure you that bike races held in parks (even those that don't involve any road closures) still require permits, fees, insurance, emergency/police/first aid, etc. I think some of our cyclocross races are actually more complicated in this regard than crit races.

RCMoeur 

"Is that a tree branch sticking out of her arm?"
"Not as bad as last week."

scott967

Used to do 2 or so 10Ks a month, with some others thrown in up to marathon (never saw anything requiring a license though course certification required to get an official time). Never saw one that didn't give numbers/timed. BITD tear off portion of number established your finish time. With chips now much better as your chip start/stop time determines your recorded time, except for elite/invited runners who get clock time.

Bike race that doesn't require a license might be in a different category. We have had here an informal race that went on the bike stage of a licensed tri a couple hours before the tri ran. I don't think mass start bike was required; your could run a TT or tri bike if you wanted.

scott s.
.

Pantah

I've done exactly one organized ride/race (Mount Diablo Challenge for those wondering) so I can't use than singular experience to provide any real insight. However, I've competed in dozens of runs, 5k all the way to marathon distance, with attendance ranging from 50-ish in the hyper-local runs put on by the local running club to several thousand that people drive from out of state for, even won some small prizes in a number of them. Here's what I'll say about organization: ALL have the course posted ahead of time and often at the start area The big races are extremely well organized with clear markers for the entire route and volunteers who generally know what's going on. Roads/trails often closed. The small races are typically minimally staffed, for a variety of reasons, and often times there isn't even somebody at every corner to tell you where to go. Tape, flags or cones are put out ahead of time and the organizers hope they don't get moved. Roads and trails will usually not even be closed to the general public.
In all cases, I had a bib with a number. For almost all, there was some sort of chip timing system, though even just as recently as last year, I've done some small local races where they didn't have the money for a chip timing system, so it was done old school. Cross the line, tear off the corner of your bib and hand it to somebody writing down the times.

ANYWAYS, in every race I have ever done, I've always done my best to memorize the course ahead of time and, when possible, run/ride the course beforehand to help not only with knowing the course but to also know where the hills are, how steep, how long, etc.It's been most helpful in many ways. It would suck hard to be in a gap in the pack (or god forbid be in first place), hit an intersection that is missing the markers and not know where to go.
At a very small local trail race I ran earlier this year, at the first turn up the hill, there was a volunteer at a junction about 30 feet before, telling people to turn left up the hill and follow the cones. However, the cones had been moved by some random people sometime between 7pm and 7am, but since the volunteer had only been told to direct people to follow the cones, they didn't know how to check if they had been moved. I get part way up the wrong way (virtually everyone went the wrong way) and realized that we were definitely off course. Thankfully, I knew the area and knew where the course was supposed to go and helped other runners find the correct way once we got to the next trail junction. Somebody gave up his position in the race to make sure others didn't get lost. The slight detour didn't change the overall distance by any real margin so the results were still kept but it was a reality check for a lot of people there to memorize the route ahead of time or at least get a quick glance at it.

Pantah

I'll also add, as something more on the point of the thread title, that no foot race I have ever run (competitive or otherwise) has ever started early. They either start exactly when they're supposed to or a minute or two late, usually due to a technical difficulty.

LesterOfPuppets

I did one group ride in Arizona this year that shifted the start time an hour earlier, they sent out notice a week prior. It's just too damn hot to start a summer ride at 0700 sometimes.

Koyote

Post #18.

Pantah

That's reasonable and extenuating circumstances. Sounds like there was justification for the time start change and that it was handled well.
I was assuming from the OP that their race/ride started early for no obvious reason and with no notification which is a whole other animal.

histgeomaterial

I did not expect this thread to generate so much conversation!

Just coming back real quick to confirm that was the case. If the time change had been announced earlier that would have been fine, but there was no warning. Like I said before though, in the future I'll plan to arrive significantly earlier to just avoid this issue altogether. Still being new to it, I way underestimated how early I'd need to arrive.

The primary reason I haven't named the race is because I would prefer to not trash them publicly, since the organizers have since apologized and refunded my registration. As far as I'm concerned, it's water under the bridge at this point.

work4bike

Welcome to bike forums

RCMoeur 

Our weekly club ride here in the Searing Desert used to have a start time that varied from month to month for that reason. But people kept forgetting what time for which month. So we made it simple - we start at 6:30 am Apr-Sep & 7:30 Oct-Mar. Last Sunday, I got to sleep in a whopping extra hour and no one had been sitting around at the park for an hour waiting for us. Win-win all around except now I may not get home until after noon for my nap...

Pantah

Not sure how early you arrived, if you mentioned it I've forgotten by now, but for running races I typically show up a half an hour in advance. Some races I'll be there an hour early. For the one cycling race I did, I recall giving myself a good 1 hour before the start and I'd already done packet pickup the day before so I'd be as prepared as possible.
It's wise to have extra buffer time before the start just in case something goes wrong or there's a error with your registration (had that happen before and used up all of my extra hour before race start to resolve it).

bblair

I think you probably entered an organized ride, but not an actual race. The kind with food stops and porta johns.

I have done tons of those and sometimes leave early to avoid the mass confusion or left late so it warms up. Or in the summer, to finish before it gets too hot. Not timed, just a good time. But if you leave too late, the food stops will be picked clean.